Lloyd you commie pinko. You can't let them have free restrooms lest they realize that if they don't have to buy something to pee, they really don't need to work!
Some places here in San Diego, the beaches a number of public parks, have adequate restrooms. But some portions of the city are woefully without public facilities. People complain about homeless folks using public places to relieve themselves, but they don't have anywhere else to go.
American popular culture reduced public facilities to dens of iniquity seeing them as dominated by drug users and perverts and underfunded and undermanned police departments complained that they had better things to do than police them. I did recently see three automated facilities along Washington DC’s newly redeveloped and now upscale waterfront but I didn’t test any of them. I do resent wholeheartedly any enterprise that sells beverages and food but refuses even customers access to facilities for dealing with the natural effects of eating and drinking. The arrival of McDonalds restaurants in Moscow was haled for both the obvious reasons but also for its reliably clean and functioning restrooms accessible for the cost of a beverage or a burger.
Starbucks didn’t always have free bathrooms. I remember barging in to a Starbucks, very small child in tow who was desperately holding it in, rushing straight to the bathroom only to find a combination lock on the door. A nearby woman saw us and immediately gave me the combination that had been printed on her receipt. I thanked her profusely. But for her I didn’t have a cold wet screaming child on the long subway ride home.
And on this, Starbucks should never have opened up their facilities as they did - they even said that they didn't want to as they figured out what would happen next if they did. BUT!
>> "We don’t want to become a public bathroom, but we’re going to make the right decision a hundred percent of the time and give people the key."
And it happened:
>> This is causing outrage again among people who claim “the policy could disproportionately affect vulnerable groups, such as homeless individuals or those unable to afford a purchase but in need of restroom access.”
Give into the activist mob, die by the activist mob, who, btw, really don't care about the results afterwards - just that they got what they wanted by any means possible. And those activists decided to manufacture a crisis that should never have been acknowledged ("we cater to our paying customers and not the homeless and drug addicts")
And as you noted, they didn't want to fight back against the bad PR (they should have learned about Saul Alinsky's Rules for Radicals and how it was being used against them).
As to the other part of your post:
>> "Anxieties over vandalism and public sex led to their demise,
Forgot crime as well.
And now cost - remember how much it cost San Franscisco to build ONE public toilet? Over a million bucks - and then shut it down a little while later.
It goes that the US government couldn't even build a crapper anymore.
And don't forget the idea behind private washrooms in private facilities - that people would BUY something when they stopped in. If I have to use the bathroom at a gas station, I'll buy something as they have provided something of value to me. That's just showing a modicum of courtesy to the proprietor.
Starbucks' problem is that they flat out broke that unwritten rule and in areas where it would be abused. And it was - much to their faux surprise.
Now, they've done the right thing by providing a clean facility for their CUSTOMERS.
And they just told the activists to pound sand. If the activists were SO adamant about this, why aren't they forming an NGO to fill those needs? E.g., de Tocqueville.
Oh yeah, it's much harder to DO something than scream about it.
It wasn't "fear of what some people might do", it's what some people WERE doing that got the rest of us fed up with their bad behavior.
When you allow criminals, drug addicts, and the mentally ill free reign to roam wherever they want without restriction or repercussion, you inevitably end up with bad situations that could have been handled in a more nuanced way.
Taipei not only has a wealth of public toilets, all subway stations have them mostly outside the paid entrance to use the subway; furthermore they also have breastfeeding rooms. But here society is also not so individualistic and my my my as in the US (I lived in NYC 10years) there’s a great sense of community and care also for those you don’t know. Wherein America the state does a really good job at pitting people against each other, as it helps it remove its responsibility to those that have the least but non the less keeps the wheels turning (also literally, cap driver, delivery drivers which we know have been forced to pee in bottles). And when a system is set up that is okay with Amazon workers being denied bathroom access while working in the wear houses what do you expect for the rest of that society?
Lloyd you commie pinko. You can't let them have free restrooms lest they realize that if they don't have to buy something to pee, they really don't need to work!
Some places here in San Diego, the beaches a number of public parks, have adequate restrooms. But some portions of the city are woefully without public facilities. People complain about homeless folks using public places to relieve themselves, but they don't have anywhere else to go.
American popular culture reduced public facilities to dens of iniquity seeing them as dominated by drug users and perverts and underfunded and undermanned police departments complained that they had better things to do than police them. I did recently see three automated facilities along Washington DC’s newly redeveloped and now upscale waterfront but I didn’t test any of them. I do resent wholeheartedly any enterprise that sells beverages and food but refuses even customers access to facilities for dealing with the natural effects of eating and drinking. The arrival of McDonalds restaurants in Moscow was haled for both the obvious reasons but also for its reliably clean and functioning restrooms accessible for the cost of a beverage or a burger.
Starbucks didn’t always have free bathrooms. I remember barging in to a Starbucks, very small child in tow who was desperately holding it in, rushing straight to the bathroom only to find a combination lock on the door. A nearby woman saw us and immediately gave me the combination that had been printed on her receipt. I thanked her profusely. But for her I didn’t have a cold wet screaming child on the long subway ride home.
See, Lloyd, we can agree on some things!
And on this, Starbucks should never have opened up their facilities as they did - they even said that they didn't want to as they figured out what would happen next if they did. BUT!
>> "We don’t want to become a public bathroom, but we’re going to make the right decision a hundred percent of the time and give people the key."
And it happened:
>> This is causing outrage again among people who claim “the policy could disproportionately affect vulnerable groups, such as homeless individuals or those unable to afford a purchase but in need of restroom access.”
Give into the activist mob, die by the activist mob, who, btw, really don't care about the results afterwards - just that they got what they wanted by any means possible. And those activists decided to manufacture a crisis that should never have been acknowledged ("we cater to our paying customers and not the homeless and drug addicts")
And as you noted, they didn't want to fight back against the bad PR (they should have learned about Saul Alinsky's Rules for Radicals and how it was being used against them).
As to the other part of your post:
>> "Anxieties over vandalism and public sex led to their demise,
Forgot crime as well.
And now cost - remember how much it cost San Franscisco to build ONE public toilet? Over a million bucks - and then shut it down a little while later.
It goes that the US government couldn't even build a crapper anymore.
And don't forget the idea behind private washrooms in private facilities - that people would BUY something when they stopped in. If I have to use the bathroom at a gas station, I'll buy something as they have provided something of value to me. That's just showing a modicum of courtesy to the proprietor.
Starbucks' problem is that they flat out broke that unwritten rule and in areas where it would be abused. And it was - much to their faux surprise.
Now, they've done the right thing by providing a clean facility for their CUSTOMERS.
And they just told the activists to pound sand. If the activists were SO adamant about this, why aren't they forming an NGO to fill those needs? E.g., de Tocqueville.
Oh yeah, it's much harder to DO something than scream about it.
It wasn't "fear of what some people might do", it's what some people WERE doing that got the rest of us fed up with their bad behavior.
When you allow criminals, drug addicts, and the mentally ill free reign to roam wherever they want without restriction or repercussion, you inevitably end up with bad situations that could have been handled in a more nuanced way.
Go local.
Taipei not only has a wealth of public toilets, all subway stations have them mostly outside the paid entrance to use the subway; furthermore they also have breastfeeding rooms. But here society is also not so individualistic and my my my as in the US (I lived in NYC 10years) there’s a great sense of community and care also for those you don’t know. Wherein America the state does a really good job at pitting people against each other, as it helps it remove its responsibility to those that have the least but non the less keeps the wheels turning (also literally, cap driver, delivery drivers which we know have been forced to pee in bottles). And when a system is set up that is okay with Amazon workers being denied bathroom access while working in the wear houses what do you expect for the rest of that society?
Seoul has excellent public facilities! Of course, CCTV is everywhere...maybe that's the key.
Hi Sue,
There’s CCTV a plenty in New York City, so might it be something else?
Just happened to come across this last night: a modular public bathroom in NYC by 1100 Architects. https://www.architecturalrecord.com/articles/17293-on-staten-island-1100-architect-debuts-new-yorks-first-modular-public-restroom