You wrote “The contradictions abound. Americans want a fuller life, but they don’t want to live where the amenities, the libraries and theaters and bookstores and where the other people are, which is in the city. “
Actually, typically they don’t consider libraries, theaters, and other city amenities to be the key to a fuller life. The amenities they care about are things like their church, their clubs, their pets, their garden, their own home, and their neighborhood friends. Their books are likely to be ordered online, and films are typically streamed.
There are more people in the suburbs than in urban zip codes.
There are plenty of hospitals, doctors, and specialists nearby in the suburbs and exurbs, and a person too fragile to drive is probably also too fragile to want to walk long distances or to take public transit.
Most retirees who no longer drive can get rides. There are plenty of lawn services, trash services, delivery services, and ride options, from my personal experience with elderly family and neighbors who aged in place. Realize, anyone in their sixties has or had parents who have gone through this exact same thing, so they know what is involved. There are also often paid helpers and sometimes young relatives that are willing to trade basic help for free rent.
There are not services that replace your friends, your church, your pets, your garden, your community, or your own home that you love. People who did not like cities or public transit when they are young are not going to like it any better when they are old.
I am in my sixties, live in a rural exurb, and moving to a city would mean giving up everything that makes my life worth living. Why on earth would you think I would want to do that when I retire? I would literally rather just die and get it over with than move to a city.
No one has a right to decide for any person, elderly or not, where they shall live.
Of course if a person is suffering dementia or severe health problems they can only be in places where they can be taken care of by professional medical personnel.
But otherwise moving an elderly person to the city against their will solely on the basis of their chronological age is sheer nonsense.
I will be free to choose my own path as long as I have my senses and sanity. Living in the big city, especially a communist inspired 15 minute City, will never be a choice or option for me. Anyone trying to force me into that situation will be met with violence of action. And I do mean violent.
What do you expect when boomers have been bombarded since birth with marketing telling them that suburbia is the paradise that will make all their dreams come true and news that suggests that cities are full of hooligan children and criminal immigrants ready to rape and murder them before stealing everything they have. This crap doesn’t appear out of a vacuum. It is manufactured by people with stuff to sell. We should not be surprised that marketing works.
As a late Boomer, no, we haven’t. Marketing has nothing to do with it - the relentless marketing has been pro-city, not pro-suburb, for at least 50 years.
We do have really good experiences living where we live, often decades of community and relationships built up there, and those are the things that make life worthwhile. If Boomers didn’t want to live in cities while they were working, why on Earth would you expect them to move to one when they’re old?
Elle? This conversation has been discussed before:
"often decades of community and relationships built up there"
If a senior citizen is forced to move to "elsewhere", all those relationships that ARE IMPORTANT to seniors would be severed. Making the depth of friendships anew is nigh almost impossible.
And it is, in no small part, the relationships that keep we oldsters going.
Exactly. I do not understand this desire to take the joy out of their life by forcing old people into settings they don’t want. It’s coercive and patronizing.
But wait! Don't the New Urbanists and professional planners know what is best for us all?
And we're back at the Fallacy of the Great Mind dysfunctionality. If only the phrase "And for those who want to be in cities..." were included, it would be much more palatable. Instead, "coercive" certainly is a powerful word.
Not more than suburban or exurban settings, and I say this as a retirement age person, living in a rural exurb, who has watched grandparents (rural), parents (suburban), and many, many older friends (suburban and rural) successfully age in place. If you have a network of community, and if you have common sense, you are very likely to have the resources you need.
Older people are extremely unlikely to want to have no choice but to walk long distances for necessities or to take public transport if they have options. Older people are more likely to have days that knees, back, or hips make walking painful. They want to have options.
Family, friends, church bus, paid individual transport are all suburban and rural options that are better for the old person. One day autonomous vehicles will be another option.
Walkable communities are not great for days it hurts to walk, and even very spry older people have days like that.
Older people are generally not stupid. They know what works best for them. And if they get to the point they are cognitively impaired, they should be in assisted living, not set adrift in a city.
And lovely things like graffiti, threats and violence - along with noise and Z’s and Milly’s who actively despise them and who will condescend to them as per this article? Sounds like paradise.
Cities are very expensive to live in. Often far more expensive than living in your house in the suburbs, with property taxes often held in check by mandates like Proposition 13.
My husband and I are boomers. (At the younger end of the group…) We left a relatively rural area less than a year ago for a CCC just outside a large urban area. We considered transportation, medical care, and community; and made a decision that will allow us to live out the remaining years of our lives in comfort and security. Plus… our kids won’t have to find a place for us down the road. We already took care of it.
It’s not “crap” to be afraid of living in a city. Crime is real, and activist judges don’t seem to want to lock up the bad guys (a young man in my town was arrested for shooting into a passing car; since he didn’t hit anyone the judge let him out - no bail - and he was re-arrested this week for shooting someone in the leg.) Boomers ain’t dumb, and who would leave a safer area for less-safe?
Why do I get the feeling you are a babyboomer also?
Even though I could still take care of my McMansion (2500 sq feet) on 2/3rd acre. I had no issues cutting the grass once per week, get up on the roof (two story) to fix something, or change furnace filters. For me, they were things to do which I enjoyed in my seventies.
I learned a lot from my dad when I worked with him on a scaffold many stories up. This place keeps me busy and engaged. We did move to a much smaller home on a small lot in amongst younger people to whom we are the resident grandparents to. It is fun watching their kids grow up. They watch out for us and we do holidays together.
Not ready for the old age farm yet. You lose something when everyone is the same as you.
We have been married for 54 years. We were married after I left the USMC as a Sergeant in 71. She was 20 going on 21 and I was 22. College and OCS did not convince me to stay.
Our children are spread out. So this location gives us the ability to watch others grow up, see and experience newborns, and offer advice. If needed, offer help, physically, mechanically, and other.
Mother's Day and we were paid a visit by Adolpo and his seven-year-old son.. I answered the door and he was there asking for Jan with his hands behind his back. I could see flowers, but, he was trying to hide them.
"T-T" (nickname) starts talking to her. Wishing her a happy Mother's Day. She knows the flowers are there. She tells him she smells something sweet. He says, "I bathed yesterday." She say's something and he says. "I know everything." This goes back and forth. And he gives her the dozen roses. Of course, she gushes over them, And he feels so proud. Smart little boy who knows what to say. Two older sisters and two older brothers.
Young couple with a baby on one side. A gay couple on the other side, A plethora of others. All of this is comfortable for us. We grew up in NYC (her) and Chicago (me).
I transitioned from a four bedroom four bath house with a three car garage and outbuildings in a forest setting to a loft apartment in a Victorian village on a waterfall.
I disbursed over 30 years of accumulated belongings in a way that helped many others .
My belief was that such a special location deserved and needed the care of younger generation .
We are encouraged to accumulate but not prepared to thoughtfully release a lifetime of belongings.
Now I am able to walk everywhere, take trips without the concern of arranging house care services , and engage with the community easily.
The difficulty though for many seniors is loneliness and the lack of options beyond what feels like warehousing by segregation into huge apartment complex’s where natural integration in a new community can be challenging.
I believe an answer might be co- housing where seniors can live nestled in the wider community with grouped universal design age -in -place units connected by a central hub to facilitate companionship while still maintaining independent living
quarters. Co locate such places in a vital part of the community so the resources we can bring are celebrated .
We did similar. However, we still have much is storage. Quite a few of my tools are in storage. My automotive stuff is in the garage. My neighbors borrow from me. And I lend and help too. I still have strength.
We also have a young female German Shepherd who follows my wife and I walk. We do board her with another person who trains and shows German Shepherds.
The difficulty is being alone or just two stuck inside of four walls with no place to sit or go. We have a side walk and a backyard, plants, and flowers.
Seniors should not be segregated. They need exposure to others so they understand the issues. The others need to see their issues too. We are not dead and we can be assets to a community and others.
I just helped my daughter in laws over the last three years whom have been caught between the elder care needs and their own family needs. After helping to offload a huge suburban house for one set of their parents, I realized that my children would have to do the same thing for me in the future.
The thing I missed most were the beautiful gardens that flourished during those 30 years.
But I have access to a community garden plot and received permission to plant flowers instead of veggies to help feed the bees and hummingbirds.
So I can understand that for many people there are treasures too precious to release and you folks found a way to help others with your plan.
Maybe. Where I am, most people mind their own business unless help is requested (or very obviously needed). My "neighborly" friends are online worldwide so location is irrelevant.
My loft apartment has thirty stairs and two landings between the upper and lower level. It affords beautiful views in all seasons.
I have made new friends also ; primarily of the younger generations.
As I travel over to Wolfe Island Ontario , Canada for the summer, I have arranged for this building to be part of the Festival on the Falls in August while I am gone.
A young local artist will put on a one person art exhibit , a local band has been hired to play music on a balcony overlooking the falls, and the local historical society is preparing the history of the building to be put on display.
Even better they are setting up a QR scan code so people coming through can send me real time pictures of the festival.
My landlord will serve as host.
I believe that supporting local talent is the best way to keep connections vital.
I think the idea that it's either single family house or “old age farm” is keeping a lot of people my parents’ age trapped. Dense urbanism is for everyone. It's not warehousing by age or any other demographic. You can see this in other countries that allow that housing to be built.
Obviously, this would be a living hell for me and others. This is the kind of thinking and projection that drives many people absolutely bonkers. HOW DO YOU KNOW that "everyone" is just pinning away to be in small apartments, higher costs, higher taxes (direct and indirect), higher crime, and a whole host of other badness?
There is no way you can know what other prefer so making such a statement is nothing but a stereotype from those that prefer the Urban Environment (I had other things I could have written but Lloyd would have had yet another nutty with me - smirk!).
And PLEASE, don't get me started on the politics of urban areas - you really wouldn't like me at all.
You're misunderstanding my point, maybe willfully. I'm not saying everyone must be forcibly relocated to a Brooklyn apartment. I'm saying there should be more choices. I'm saying that everyone benefits when communities include a range of housing types—not just single-family homes or age-restricted facilities. That includes walkable neighborhoods with services nearby, smaller homes on smaller lots, and options that allow older people to stay engaged and independent.
What I’m pushing back on is the false binary: either stay isolated in a big house designed for car dependency, or move to an "old age farm." There’s a lot in between, and many other countries design for that.
Also, the idea that density automatically means “crime, taxes, and misery” is just lazy stereotyping. There are dense places with great quality of life—and sprawling ones with high taxes and social breakdown. Design matters more than ideology.
"You're misunderstanding my point" - Well, you said what you did"
"maybe willfully." - But not maliciously.
"I'm saying there should be more choices...There’s a lot in between," - Then we are on the same side.
It should always be about an individual's choice - and the more the better. However, you have to realize that I have had a long time in listening to Lloyd's substance that backs up your "Dense urbanism is for everyone" and he, for years, has been adamant about it. Only once has he admitted that city life is not for everyone...and then restarted on the mantra that we all must be in walkable cities. And most commenters have agreed with that. So when I read it, I read it as confirmation of what I hate the most - loss of choice and freedom.
My parents are boomers. They live an hour out in the country. My
Mom is a poorly controlled diabetic type 2. It’s a nightmare. They live in a county where the county sear is population 3k. They have a huge 5 bedroom house. A huge estate that needs mowed. Luckily they have some money. My brother and I both work full time and they just expect us to do everything. All the doctor appointments. They don’t want to hire anyone to help them inside. It’s filling up with clutter. I look at the future and think, I’ll have nothing. No life. No retirement be side my life will be taking care of them. I feel this article.
Would your parents consider exploring options that might place less physical demand on them and their children.
I’m not saying there weren’t tears when I made my decision, but as a parent I did not want my children’s life quality to suffer because I wanted to hang onto
a property I could not manage easily when my husband had passed.
I roughed it out for five years , but recognized that the sheer amount of physical demands left little time for the things I wanted to do most.
I wanted my children to live their best lives ; so sought a way to both help them resource their down payments on homes of their own and provide some child care support .
The challenge can be affordability of the new housing situation .
All I can say is that once I shrunk my belongings there was a sense of freedom and possibilities for new adventures.
As a former chair of a tri -county homeless housing coalition I hope to gain some traction for my housing concept.
Seniors are now the fastest growing homeless population and the numbers are expected to triple by 2030.
We need desperately housing stock where people don’t have to leave as their physical conditions require adaptations of the environment.
Imagine trying to retrofit that large house to meet that need for your folks in the future.
I would love to see a new essay with more current info becuz I’m betting a lot of these boomers are already seeing the issues with their earlier priorities.
Respectfully - and I mean that because I checked out your qualifications before responding - work studying what’s typically been called “boomer generation” has been refined. Pontell’s 2014 work split the exceptionally large group into two: Boomers 1946-1953, Generation Jones 1954-1965.
Pontell’s work makes sense of the enormous disparity between the two designations. I’m a Gen-Jones. We grew up with technology. We *developed* most of the technology that Millennials and Gen-Z ridicule us for not knowing. Even as we teach them how to use it. NASA is part of our DNA. We were the generation that backpacked through the US and Europe. We made damn good trouble.
Most of my friends are still intellectually and emotionally and physically active. Yep, we may move slower. But we still move.
The bit about what “we” want fails to take into account what those questioned grew up with and feel comfortable with.
And in the end, that’s part of aging. Wanting to be secure, comfortable, at peace. We’ve done the nonstop. Doesn’t mean we’re not living. Well. Even if with less money. As long as we have fast Internet.
Well, since this was from 2016, it is extremely out of date with respect for autonomous driving capabilities. While FULL hands-off driving is not generally available, the last two years have show major progress with maturing (to a point) AI backend systems (like with Tesla, training with real time driving data) being brought into the picture.
So Lloyd, I asked our favorite AI system, Perplexity "What is the current status of self-driving cars from the major automobile manufacturers"? The response:
"The self-driving car industry in 2025 is marked by significant technological progress but tempered expectations about the pace of full autonomy. While earlier predictions envisioned widespread Level 4 and Level 5 autonomy by now, most major manufacturers are still in the advanced driver-assistance and limited autonomy phase, with true driverless vehicles largely restricted to pilot programs and specific regions. Regulatory, safety, and real-world complexity remain key hurdles.
Tesla
- Tesla continues to develop its "Full Self-Driving" (FSD) suite, which leverages AI-driven neural networks trained on data from its global fleet.
- The system is available to consumers in a "beta" form, offering advanced driver assistance (Level 2/3), but not full autonomy.
- Tesla focuses on expanding operational domains (recall), aiming for broader hands-off capabilities, though regulatory approval for true hands-off (Level 4/5) is not yet achieved.
Waymo (Alphabet/Google)
- Waymo remains a leader in fully autonomous (Level 4) urban driving, operating commercial robotaxi and delivery services in select U.S. cities.
- Its vehicles use a combination of LiDAR, radar, and high-definition mapping to achieve high precision.
- Waymo is prioritizing safety (precision), with extensive real-world testing and gradual expansion of its service areas.
General Motors/Cruise
- Cruise, backed by GM, is running fully autonomous electric vehicles in urban pilot programs, notably in San Francisco.
- Their vehicles are designed for city environments and are being prepared for commercial deployment at scale.
- Cruise is also developing the Cruise Origin, a vehicle without traditional controls, signaling confidence in Level 4 autonomy for specific use cases.
Hyundai Motor Group
- Hyundai is investing heavily in AI and simulation through partnerships with Nvidia, aiming to accelerate the development of its autonomous-vehicle software stack.
- The focus is on building robust, scalable systems, with simulated environments used for safe and comprehensive testing.
- Hyundai is positioning itself as a frontrunner in AI-empowered mobility innovation, though its consumer offerings remain at Level 2/3 for now.
Mercedes-Benz, BMW, and Other Luxury Brands
- Brands like Mercedes-Benz and BMW offer advanced Level 2 and some Level 3 systems in select models, such as the Mercedes-Benz E-Class and BMW X5.
- These systems enable hands-off driving in specific conditions (e.g., highway traffic jams), but still require driver attention and intervention.
Mobileye (Intel)
- Mobileye is advancing both its SuperVision (eyes-on, hands-off) platform and its upcoming Chauffeur system (eyes-off, hands-off for highways).
- The Chauffeur system, targeting consumer vehicles, will offer autonomous highway driving with increasing sensor sophistication, aiming for higher precision and operational safety.
Nvidia
- Nvidia powers many automakers' autonomous systems with its DRIVE platform, which handles AI model training, simulation, and in-vehicle processing.
- The company partners with nearly every major carmaker, including BYD, Tesla, Toyota, Mercedes-Benz, and others, providing foundational technology for both consumer and commercial autonomous vehicles.
- Aurora and Pony.ai are focusing on autonomous trucking and urban mobility, using deep learning and sensor fusion for complex environments.
- These companies are piloting Level 4 systems in limited commercial deployments, with plans for broader rollout in the coming years.
Continental and Suppliers
- Continental, in partnership with Ambarella and Aurora, is developing modular ADAS and full-stack autonomous solutions, including plans to mass-manufacture Level 4 autonomous trucking systems by 2027.
Industry Trends and Challenges
- Software-Defined Vehicles: Automakers are increasingly relying on software updates to enhance and maintain vehicle autonomy, with partnerships (e.g., Honda and Amazon Web Services) to accelerate development.
- Regulatory Landscape: Regulatory changes, such as eased deployment rules in the U.S., are beginning to support broader testing and deployment, but safety reporting and oversight remain strict.
- Levels of Autonomy: Most vehicles on the road are at Level 2 (partial automation) or Level 3 (conditional automation). Level 4 (high automation) is limited to pilot programs and geo-fenced areas. Level 5 (full automation) remains a future goal.
- Geographic Variation: China has seen a surge in autonomous advances, with companies like Baidu Apollo and Momenta pushing large-scale deployments, especially in trucking and robotaxi services.
Conclusion
Self-driving cars from major automakers in 2025 are advancing steadily but remain short of full autonomy for the general public. Most consumer vehicles offer advanced driver-assist (Level 2/3), while fully autonomous (Level 4) vehicles are limited to pilot programs, robotaxi fleets, and specific commercial applications. The industry is now focused on software, partnerships, and incremental deployment as regulatory and real-world challenges are addressed."
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Both the "force" multiplier" and "bottleneck" is now AI. I think the phrase, generally used in the use case of slow-rolling disasters of major proportions, is "slowly at first, then suddenly". Here, it has taken almost 70 odd years for AI to get to this point but in the last two years, has grown in capabilities exponentially far beyond what folks thought even just 5-7 years ago.
Those back/front end AI components are now hitting such increases that in the next 5 years, almost fully autonomous vehicles may not be universally deployed but will be beyond "oh, that's intesting/cool/outrageous" in the eyes of the public.
Which means, according to your chart, those who much more prefer to be in the suburbs and rural areas will not have the mobility problems outlined as their "major problems". Even my technophobic (and disabled) wife is watching Tesla in this area. She hasn't driven more than 100 miles in the last 4 years because of those disabilities.
Now she sees the ability coming her way to not be so dependent on me in this regard. Will FSD be perfect? No, it won't be. But it will be able to allow her to do the rather limited amount of daily traveling she wished she could do now. However, I won't be allowing her to drive it in a NH blizzard here on the mountain we live on...heh!
I was wondering why the age math was so wrong. Though many people will want to stay in their houses, others will move to condos, apartments, and independent living facilities. Plus Uber is ubiquitous. And there are many small businesses that will come out to mow your lawn, shovel your walk, and clean your house. These all have their own transportation.
"In summary, they really want “a typically suburban neighbourhood with single family detached homes close to area and retail space.” Which, according to almost every expert, is just about the worst setup you can come up with for an aging population...but there's such a disconnect here between what people say they want, and what they ultimately need."
The approaching FSD demolishes Lloyd's argument that Boomers (of which I am one) MUST move to a place that I hate - cities as mobility (FSD and as you point out, Ubers) is a huge part of his argument.
To that last point, anyone see that new VW ad showing an older lady having her new VW ride backing up an uphill and wavy driveway while smirking at the youngsters, at the driveway beginning, who can't believe what they are seeing.
Thus, what we WANT, we can have - forced into walkability locales is no longer an issue.
And as for that "and what they ultimately need."? This is an application of the Fallacy of the Great Mind where one or more "leaders" are purported to know, in depth, what everyone else needs - but can't possibly know to the level of detail required to make such decisions.
Frankly, and to be very blunt, it doesn't matter what others THINK I need (now or in the future). The only important thing to know is that I, and others, get to make that decision. Happily. Telling me what I NEED is an exercise in both futility and hubris. To the latter, how CAN anyone else know what I need? Heck, my wife, after 43 years of marriage, doesn't always know that - how can someone who has never met me (except writing here and at TH) successfully determine what I, or anyone else, "needs".
Removing the mobility issue removes much of the underpinnings of that "need". The mention here of paying for services also does more pruning of it as well?
Frankly, I'd rather be out here in the sticks when it goes down than in a city. At least here, I know everyone in town.
Besides, if the grid goes down, which environment is more apt to suffer from a lack of electricity? We're used to it out here, sometimes for a few days. We've prepped (years ago, 3 weeks with no power due to an entire Northeast ice storm) as we've lived it.
Large cities?
Not so much. When the water and sewage pumps go down, and credit cards are useless, and ATMs are dead to everyone, and the EVs brick themselves...
Not all Boomers live in 2000 sqft homes. Some of us are happy to have an extra bedroom or two now that we are “empty nesters.”
Previous commenters are also correct: our support system is here. Our churches, our clubs, our friends, our roots. Heck, even the local public librarian knows me! 😁
safety features such as backup cameras, blindspot indicators, driver assist braking allow Boomers to continue driving safely. Large, illuminated street signs and improved GPS navigation systems also help. These are not as spectacular as self-driving cars, but help keep Boomers (and later Gen-Xers!) driving safely longer.
Ohhhhh yeah I forgot this was re-posted! I was about to comment like “Ahem! What about Gen X?! You’re lumping 52yo’s in with the Boomers!” But those 52yo’s he referenced would be 62 now, which does make sense🤓
What a strangely romanticized view of the city. I live in a city. They’re not all NYC or Paris. The public transportation here is spotty, unreliable and unsafe. The streets are not very walkable - I live within walking distance of many things but I rarely walk places because it’s not very safe or enjoyable to do in my area. Most of the theaters and bookstores are in the suburbs. The libraries are smaller and the programming is most focused on homeless outreach. The programs for kids and seniors are mostly hosted at suburban branches. There are few grocery stores here, and they’re smaller with less selection than their suburban counterparts. My doctor is in the suburbs…going to a massive hospital complex and trying to find parking every time I wanted to see my GP got old.
The nice senior living condos with services that we are trying to get my grandmother (Silent Generation) to move into are not in the city, they’re in the Poconos. The ones we looked at around here when my Boomer MiL had a health scare were in the suburbs too. The ones in the city were smaller, older, and more run-down. My boomer parents moved to a condo in NYC after they became empty nesters, but after a few years realized they really missed the peace and quiet and the ability to garden and walk the neighborhood, so they moved to a smaller detached home in a New England village and they’re much happier.
Cities are not a magical solution to any problem, and they have many of their own.
Was this survey given to other age groups? It only makes sense to mock boomers for these attitudes if they're boomer-specific. I'm not sure the younger generations are, or will be, less apt to deny their own mortality. I could be wrong, of course. It would also be interesting to know how attitudes might differ in other countries (I'm assuming it's America you're talking about).
I cannot get my 91 year old mother out of her house and into a well-located apartment. She is healthy and active thank God. But she is pouring so much money, time, and effort into that house. What a waste. It’s not just the boomers.
“The baby boomer generation is huge, roughly 78 million Americans born between the years of 1946 and 1964. The oldest are just turning 70 and the youngest are just 52”
I think your math is a little wonky. The oldest are almost 80 and the youngest are 61.
I will, respectfully, disagree. Anecdotal examples can be found to try to prop up any argument one may care to make no matter how specious. I am not arguing that cities do not have crime or that the criminal justice system does not make mistakes. However, the conclusion that one should generally be scared to live in a city is quite simply unsupported crap and using it to support the continuation of the wasteful, environmentally nightmarish suburban sprawl that has dominated housing growth for a couple of generations now is to pile crap upon crap. IMHO.
You wrote “The contradictions abound. Americans want a fuller life, but they don’t want to live where the amenities, the libraries and theaters and bookstores and where the other people are, which is in the city. “
Actually, typically they don’t consider libraries, theaters, and other city amenities to be the key to a fuller life. The amenities they care about are things like their church, their clubs, their pets, their garden, their own home, and their neighborhood friends. Their books are likely to be ordered online, and films are typically streamed.
There are more people in the suburbs than in urban zip codes.
There are plenty of hospitals, doctors, and specialists nearby in the suburbs and exurbs, and a person too fragile to drive is probably also too fragile to want to walk long distances or to take public transit.
Most retirees who no longer drive can get rides. There are plenty of lawn services, trash services, delivery services, and ride options, from my personal experience with elderly family and neighbors who aged in place. Realize, anyone in their sixties has or had parents who have gone through this exact same thing, so they know what is involved. There are also often paid helpers and sometimes young relatives that are willing to trade basic help for free rent.
There are not services that replace your friends, your church, your pets, your garden, your community, or your own home that you love. People who did not like cities or public transit when they are young are not going to like it any better when they are old.
I am in my sixties, live in a rural exurb, and moving to a city would mean giving up everything that makes my life worth living. Why on earth would you think I would want to do that when I retire? I would literally rather just die and get it over with than move to a city.
No one has a right to decide for any person, elderly or not, where they shall live.
Of course if a person is suffering dementia or severe health problems they can only be in places where they can be taken care of by professional medical personnel.
But otherwise moving an elderly person to the city against their will solely on the basis of their chronological age is sheer nonsense.
I will be free to choose my own path as long as I have my senses and sanity. Living in the big city, especially a communist inspired 15 minute City, will never be a choice or option for me. Anyone trying to force me into that situation will be met with violence of action. And I do mean violent.
Cheers
What do you expect when boomers have been bombarded since birth with marketing telling them that suburbia is the paradise that will make all their dreams come true and news that suggests that cities are full of hooligan children and criminal immigrants ready to rape and murder them before stealing everything they have. This crap doesn’t appear out of a vacuum. It is manufactured by people with stuff to sell. We should not be surprised that marketing works.
As a late Boomer, no, we haven’t. Marketing has nothing to do with it - the relentless marketing has been pro-city, not pro-suburb, for at least 50 years.
We do have really good experiences living where we live, often decades of community and relationships built up there, and those are the things that make life worthwhile. If Boomers didn’t want to live in cities while they were working, why on Earth would you expect them to move to one when they’re old?
Because cities have all the things that will help them when mobility/no longer driving situations come into play?
Elle? This conversation has been discussed before:
"often decades of community and relationships built up there"
If a senior citizen is forced to move to "elsewhere", all those relationships that ARE IMPORTANT to seniors would be severed. Making the depth of friendships anew is nigh almost impossible.
And it is, in no small part, the relationships that keep we oldsters going.
Exactly. I do not understand this desire to take the joy out of their life by forcing old people into settings they don’t want. It’s coercive and patronizing.
"It’s coercive and patronizing."
But wait! Don't the New Urbanists and professional planners know what is best for us all?
And we're back at the Fallacy of the Great Mind dysfunctionality. If only the phrase "And for those who want to be in cities..." were included, it would be much more palatable. Instead, "coercive" certainly is a powerful word.
The last place I would move is into a noisy, soul-destroying, expensive, aesthetically bereft mess of a city. My god.
We live on a very quiet street in a small town with a very good hospital, adequate shopping very close, available public transport and peace.
We plan to move, when we get too old to manage here, to a smaller home and eventually assisted living if necessary.
Moving to a city would be a terrible miserable experience.
Not more than suburban or exurban settings, and I say this as a retirement age person, living in a rural exurb, who has watched grandparents (rural), parents (suburban), and many, many older friends (suburban and rural) successfully age in place. If you have a network of community, and if you have common sense, you are very likely to have the resources you need.
Older people are extremely unlikely to want to have no choice but to walk long distances for necessities or to take public transport if they have options. Older people are more likely to have days that knees, back, or hips make walking painful. They want to have options.
Family, friends, church bus, paid individual transport are all suburban and rural options that are better for the old person. One day autonomous vehicles will be another option.
Walkable communities are not great for days it hurts to walk, and even very spry older people have days like that.
Older people are generally not stupid. They know what works best for them. And if they get to the point they are cognitively impaired, they should be in assisted living, not set adrift in a city.
And lovely things like graffiti, threats and violence - along with noise and Z’s and Milly’s who actively despise them and who will condescend to them as per this article? Sounds like paradise.
Cities are very expensive to live in. Often far more expensive than living in your house in the suburbs, with property taxes often held in check by mandates like Proposition 13.
Did you not read my FSD update comment?
My husband and I are boomers. (At the younger end of the group…) We left a relatively rural area less than a year ago for a CCC just outside a large urban area. We considered transportation, medical care, and community; and made a decision that will allow us to live out the remaining years of our lives in comfort and security. Plus… our kids won’t have to find a place for us down the road. We already took care of it.
Why is it that Leftists always seem to blame "marketing" that forces them to do almost anything that "Big Biz" wants them to do?
Sheesh...it just seems that independence and independent thought is such a far away notion to some.
It’s not “crap” to be afraid of living in a city. Crime is real, and activist judges don’t seem to want to lock up the bad guys (a young man in my town was arrested for shooting into a passing car; since he didn’t hit anyone the judge let him out - no bail - and he was re-arrested this week for shooting someone in the leg.) Boomers ain’t dumb, and who would leave a safer area for less-safe?
Lloyd:
Why do I get the feeling you are a babyboomer also?
Even though I could still take care of my McMansion (2500 sq feet) on 2/3rd acre. I had no issues cutting the grass once per week, get up on the roof (two story) to fix something, or change furnace filters. For me, they were things to do which I enjoyed in my seventies.
I learned a lot from my dad when I worked with him on a scaffold many stories up. This place keeps me busy and engaged. We did move to a much smaller home on a small lot in amongst younger people to whom we are the resident grandparents to. It is fun watching their kids grow up. They watch out for us and we do holidays together.
Not ready for the old age farm yet. You lose something when everyone is the same as you.
yes I am smack in the middle of the demographic. But it seems you have done this right. Being resident grandparents is fun.
Lloyd:
Recent event.
We have been married for 54 years. We were married after I left the USMC as a Sergeant in 71. She was 20 going on 21 and I was 22. College and OCS did not convince me to stay.
Our children are spread out. So this location gives us the ability to watch others grow up, see and experience newborns, and offer advice. If needed, offer help, physically, mechanically, and other.
Mother's Day and we were paid a visit by Adolpo and his seven-year-old son.. I answered the door and he was there asking for Jan with his hands behind his back. I could see flowers, but, he was trying to hide them.
"T-T" (nickname) starts talking to her. Wishing her a happy Mother's Day. She knows the flowers are there. She tells him she smells something sweet. He says, "I bathed yesterday." She say's something and he says. "I know everything." This goes back and forth. And he gives her the dozen roses. Of course, she gushes over them, And he feels so proud. Smart little boy who knows what to say. Two older sisters and two older brothers.
Young couple with a baby on one side. A gay couple on the other side, A plethora of others. All of this is comfortable for us. We grew up in NYC (her) and Chicago (me).
I transitioned from a four bedroom four bath house with a three car garage and outbuildings in a forest setting to a loft apartment in a Victorian village on a waterfall.
I disbursed over 30 years of accumulated belongings in a way that helped many others .
My belief was that such a special location deserved and needed the care of younger generation .
We are encouraged to accumulate but not prepared to thoughtfully release a lifetime of belongings.
Now I am able to walk everywhere, take trips without the concern of arranging house care services , and engage with the community easily.
The difficulty though for many seniors is loneliness and the lack of options beyond what feels like warehousing by segregation into huge apartment complex’s where natural integration in a new community can be challenging.
I believe an answer might be co- housing where seniors can live nestled in the wider community with grouped universal design age -in -place units connected by a central hub to facilitate companionship while still maintaining independent living
quarters. Co locate such places in a vital part of the community so the resources we can bring are celebrated .
Canice:
We did similar. However, we still have much is storage. Quite a few of my tools are in storage. My automotive stuff is in the garage. My neighbors borrow from me. And I lend and help too. I still have strength.
We also have a young female German Shepherd who follows my wife and I walk. We do board her with another person who trains and shows German Shepherds.
The difficulty is being alone or just two stuck inside of four walls with no place to sit or go. We have a side walk and a backyard, plants, and flowers.
Seniors should not be segregated. They need exposure to others so they understand the issues. The others need to see their issues too. We are not dead and we can be assets to a community and others.
I just helped my daughter in laws over the last three years whom have been caught between the elder care needs and their own family needs. After helping to offload a huge suburban house for one set of their parents, I realized that my children would have to do the same thing for me in the future.
The thing I missed most were the beautiful gardens that flourished during those 30 years.
But I have access to a community garden plot and received permission to plant flowers instead of veggies to help feed the bees and hummingbirds.
So I can understand that for many people there are treasures too precious to release and you folks found a way to help others with your plan.
Good on you!
They don’t have to be segregated but being alone in a big house on a cul-de-sac is isolating too.
Only if you allow it to be isolating and most of that depends on having the mindset that it WON'T be isolating.
It depends on the neighbors too. Which you have no control over, no matter how friendly or outgoing you are.
Maybe. Where I am, most people mind their own business unless help is requested (or very obviously needed). My "neighborly" friends are online worldwide so location is irrelevant.
My loft apartment has thirty stairs and two landings between the upper and lower level. It affords beautiful views in all seasons.
I have made new friends also ; primarily of the younger generations.
As I travel over to Wolfe Island Ontario , Canada for the summer, I have arranged for this building to be part of the Festival on the Falls in August while I am gone.
A young local artist will put on a one person art exhibit , a local band has been hired to play music on a balcony overlooking the falls, and the local historical society is preparing the history of the building to be put on display.
Even better they are setting up a QR scan code so people coming through can send me real time pictures of the festival.
My landlord will serve as host.
I believe that supporting local talent is the best way to keep connections vital.
I think the idea that it's either single family house or “old age farm” is keeping a lot of people my parents’ age trapped. Dense urbanism is for everyone. It's not warehousing by age or any other demographic. You can see this in other countries that allow that housing to be built.
"Dense urbanism is for everyone"
Obviously, this would be a living hell for me and others. This is the kind of thinking and projection that drives many people absolutely bonkers. HOW DO YOU KNOW that "everyone" is just pinning away to be in small apartments, higher costs, higher taxes (direct and indirect), higher crime, and a whole host of other badness?
There is no way you can know what other prefer so making such a statement is nothing but a stereotype from those that prefer the Urban Environment (I had other things I could have written but Lloyd would have had yet another nutty with me - smirk!).
And PLEASE, don't get me started on the politics of urban areas - you really wouldn't like me at all.
You're misunderstanding my point, maybe willfully. I'm not saying everyone must be forcibly relocated to a Brooklyn apartment. I'm saying there should be more choices. I'm saying that everyone benefits when communities include a range of housing types—not just single-family homes or age-restricted facilities. That includes walkable neighborhoods with services nearby, smaller homes on smaller lots, and options that allow older people to stay engaged and independent.
What I’m pushing back on is the false binary: either stay isolated in a big house designed for car dependency, or move to an "old age farm." There’s a lot in between, and many other countries design for that.
Also, the idea that density automatically means “crime, taxes, and misery” is just lazy stereotyping. There are dense places with great quality of life—and sprawling ones with high taxes and social breakdown. Design matters more than ideology.
"You're misunderstanding my point" - Well, you said what you did"
"maybe willfully." - But not maliciously.
"I'm saying there should be more choices...There’s a lot in between," - Then we are on the same side.
It should always be about an individual's choice - and the more the better. However, you have to realize that I have had a long time in listening to Lloyd's substance that backs up your "Dense urbanism is for everyone" and he, for years, has been adamant about it. Only once has he admitted that city life is not for everyone...and then restarted on the mantra that we all must be in walkable cities. And most commenters have agreed with that. So when I read it, I read it as confirmation of what I hate the most - loss of choice and freedom.
So, we're good.
My parents are boomers. They live an hour out in the country. My
Mom is a poorly controlled diabetic type 2. It’s a nightmare. They live in a county where the county sear is population 3k. They have a huge 5 bedroom house. A huge estate that needs mowed. Luckily they have some money. My brother and I both work full time and they just expect us to do everything. All the doctor appointments. They don’t want to hire anyone to help them inside. It’s filling up with clutter. I look at the future and think, I’ll have nothing. No life. No retirement be side my life will be taking care of them. I feel this article.
Hey Holly ,
Would your parents consider exploring options that might place less physical demand on them and their children.
I’m not saying there weren’t tears when I made my decision, but as a parent I did not want my children’s life quality to suffer because I wanted to hang onto
a property I could not manage easily when my husband had passed.
I roughed it out for five years , but recognized that the sheer amount of physical demands left little time for the things I wanted to do most.
I wanted my children to live their best lives ; so sought a way to both help them resource their down payments on homes of their own and provide some child care support .
The challenge can be affordability of the new housing situation .
All I can say is that once I shrunk my belongings there was a sense of freedom and possibilities for new adventures.
As a former chair of a tri -county homeless housing coalition I hope to gain some traction for my housing concept.
Seniors are now the fastest growing homeless population and the numbers are expected to triple by 2030.
We need desperately housing stock where people don’t have to leave as their physical conditions require adaptations of the environment.
Imagine trying to retrofit that large house to meet that need for your folks in the future.
I would love to see a new essay with more current info becuz I’m betting a lot of these boomers are already seeing the issues with their earlier priorities.
Respectfully - and I mean that because I checked out your qualifications before responding - work studying what’s typically been called “boomer generation” has been refined. Pontell’s 2014 work split the exceptionally large group into two: Boomers 1946-1953, Generation Jones 1954-1965.
Pontell’s work makes sense of the enormous disparity between the two designations. I’m a Gen-Jones. We grew up with technology. We *developed* most of the technology that Millennials and Gen-Z ridicule us for not knowing. Even as we teach them how to use it. NASA is part of our DNA. We were the generation that backpacked through the US and Europe. We made damn good trouble.
Most of my friends are still intellectually and emotionally and physically active. Yep, we may move slower. But we still move.
The bit about what “we” want fails to take into account what those questioned grew up with and feel comfortable with.
And in the end, that’s part of aging. Wanting to be secure, comfortable, at peace. We’ve done the nonstop. Doesn’t mean we’re not living. Well. Even if with less money. As long as we have fast Internet.
Well, since this was from 2016, it is extremely out of date with respect for autonomous driving capabilities. While FULL hands-off driving is not generally available, the last two years have show major progress with maturing (to a point) AI backend systems (like with Tesla, training with real time driving data) being brought into the picture.
So Lloyd, I asked our favorite AI system, Perplexity "What is the current status of self-driving cars from the major automobile manufacturers"? The response:
"The self-driving car industry in 2025 is marked by significant technological progress but tempered expectations about the pace of full autonomy. While earlier predictions envisioned widespread Level 4 and Level 5 autonomy by now, most major manufacturers are still in the advanced driver-assistance and limited autonomy phase, with true driverless vehicles largely restricted to pilot programs and specific regions. Regulatory, safety, and real-world complexity remain key hurdles.
Tesla
- Tesla continues to develop its "Full Self-Driving" (FSD) suite, which leverages AI-driven neural networks trained on data from its global fleet.
- The system is available to consumers in a "beta" form, offering advanced driver assistance (Level 2/3), but not full autonomy.
- Tesla focuses on expanding operational domains (recall), aiming for broader hands-off capabilities, though regulatory approval for true hands-off (Level 4/5) is not yet achieved.
Waymo (Alphabet/Google)
- Waymo remains a leader in fully autonomous (Level 4) urban driving, operating commercial robotaxi and delivery services in select U.S. cities.
- Its vehicles use a combination of LiDAR, radar, and high-definition mapping to achieve high precision.
- Waymo is prioritizing safety (precision), with extensive real-world testing and gradual expansion of its service areas.
General Motors/Cruise
- Cruise, backed by GM, is running fully autonomous electric vehicles in urban pilot programs, notably in San Francisco.
- Their vehicles are designed for city environments and are being prepared for commercial deployment at scale.
- Cruise is also developing the Cruise Origin, a vehicle without traditional controls, signaling confidence in Level 4 autonomy for specific use cases.
Hyundai Motor Group
- Hyundai is investing heavily in AI and simulation through partnerships with Nvidia, aiming to accelerate the development of its autonomous-vehicle software stack.
- The focus is on building robust, scalable systems, with simulated environments used for safe and comprehensive testing.
- Hyundai is positioning itself as a frontrunner in AI-empowered mobility innovation, though its consumer offerings remain at Level 2/3 for now.
Mercedes-Benz, BMW, and Other Luxury Brands
- Brands like Mercedes-Benz and BMW offer advanced Level 2 and some Level 3 systems in select models, such as the Mercedes-Benz E-Class and BMW X5.
- These systems enable hands-off driving in specific conditions (e.g., highway traffic jams), but still require driver attention and intervention.
Mobileye (Intel)
- Mobileye is advancing both its SuperVision (eyes-on, hands-off) platform and its upcoming Chauffeur system (eyes-off, hands-off for highways).
- The Chauffeur system, targeting consumer vehicles, will offer autonomous highway driving with increasing sensor sophistication, aiming for higher precision and operational safety.
Nvidia
- Nvidia powers many automakers' autonomous systems with its DRIVE platform, which handles AI model training, simulation, and in-vehicle processing.
- The company partners with nearly every major carmaker, including BYD, Tesla, Toyota, Mercedes-Benz, and others, providing foundational technology for both consumer and commercial autonomous vehicles.
Aurora, Pony.ai, and Startups
- Aurora and Pony.ai are focusing on autonomous trucking and urban mobility, using deep learning and sensor fusion for complex environments.
- These companies are piloting Level 4 systems in limited commercial deployments, with plans for broader rollout in the coming years.
Continental and Suppliers
- Continental, in partnership with Ambarella and Aurora, is developing modular ADAS and full-stack autonomous solutions, including plans to mass-manufacture Level 4 autonomous trucking systems by 2027.
Industry Trends and Challenges
- Software-Defined Vehicles: Automakers are increasingly relying on software updates to enhance and maintain vehicle autonomy, with partnerships (e.g., Honda and Amazon Web Services) to accelerate development.
- Regulatory Landscape: Regulatory changes, such as eased deployment rules in the U.S., are beginning to support broader testing and deployment, but safety reporting and oversight remain strict.
- Levels of Autonomy: Most vehicles on the road are at Level 2 (partial automation) or Level 3 (conditional automation). Level 4 (high automation) is limited to pilot programs and geo-fenced areas. Level 5 (full automation) remains a future goal.
- Geographic Variation: China has seen a surge in autonomous advances, with companies like Baidu Apollo and Momenta pushing large-scale deployments, especially in trucking and robotaxi services.
Conclusion
Self-driving cars from major automakers in 2025 are advancing steadily but remain short of full autonomy for the general public. Most consumer vehicles offer advanced driver-assist (Level 2/3), while fully autonomous (Level 4) vehicles are limited to pilot programs, robotaxi fleets, and specific commercial applications. The industry is now focused on software, partnerships, and incremental deployment as regulatory and real-world challenges are addressed."
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Both the "force" multiplier" and "bottleneck" is now AI. I think the phrase, generally used in the use case of slow-rolling disasters of major proportions, is "slowly at first, then suddenly". Here, it has taken almost 70 odd years for AI to get to this point but in the last two years, has grown in capabilities exponentially far beyond what folks thought even just 5-7 years ago.
Those back/front end AI components are now hitting such increases that in the next 5 years, almost fully autonomous vehicles may not be universally deployed but will be beyond "oh, that's intesting/cool/outrageous" in the eyes of the public.
Which means, according to your chart, those who much more prefer to be in the suburbs and rural areas will not have the mobility problems outlined as their "major problems". Even my technophobic (and disabled) wife is watching Tesla in this area. She hasn't driven more than 100 miles in the last 4 years because of those disabilities.
Now she sees the ability coming her way to not be so dependent on me in this regard. Will FSD be perfect? No, it won't be. But it will be able to allow her to do the rather limited amount of daily traveling she wished she could do now. However, I won't be allowing her to drive it in a NH blizzard here on the mountain we live on...heh!
I was wondering why the age math was so wrong. Though many people will want to stay in their houses, others will move to condos, apartments, and independent living facilities. Plus Uber is ubiquitous. And there are many small businesses that will come out to mow your lawn, shovel your walk, and clean your house. These all have their own transportation.
Lloyd wrote:
"In summary, they really want “a typically suburban neighbourhood with single family detached homes close to area and retail space.” Which, according to almost every expert, is just about the worst setup you can come up with for an aging population...but there's such a disconnect here between what people say they want, and what they ultimately need."
The approaching FSD demolishes Lloyd's argument that Boomers (of which I am one) MUST move to a place that I hate - cities as mobility (FSD and as you point out, Ubers) is a huge part of his argument.
To that last point, anyone see that new VW ad showing an older lady having her new VW ride backing up an uphill and wavy driveway while smirking at the youngsters, at the driveway beginning, who can't believe what they are seeing.
Thus, what we WANT, we can have - forced into walkability locales is no longer an issue.
And as for that "and what they ultimately need."? This is an application of the Fallacy of the Great Mind where one or more "leaders" are purported to know, in depth, what everyone else needs - but can't possibly know to the level of detail required to make such decisions.
Frankly, and to be very blunt, it doesn't matter what others THINK I need (now or in the future). The only important thing to know is that I, and others, get to make that decision. Happily. Telling me what I NEED is an exercise in both futility and hubris. To the latter, how CAN anyone else know what I need? Heck, my wife, after 43 years of marriage, doesn't always know that - how can someone who has never met me (except writing here and at TH) successfully determine what I, or anyone else, "needs".
Removing the mobility issue removes much of the underpinnings of that "need". The mention here of paying for services also does more pruning of it as well?
Yeh, it all sounds great until the grid goes down.
Frankly, I'd rather be out here in the sticks when it goes down than in a city. At least here, I know everyone in town.
Besides, if the grid goes down, which environment is more apt to suffer from a lack of electricity? We're used to it out here, sometimes for a few days. We've prepped (years ago, 3 weeks with no power due to an entire Northeast ice storm) as we've lived it.
Large cities?
Not so much. When the water and sewage pumps go down, and credit cards are useless, and ATMs are dead to everyone, and the EVs brick themselves...
Not all Boomers live in 2000 sqft homes. Some of us are happy to have an extra bedroom or two now that we are “empty nesters.”
Previous commenters are also correct: our support system is here. Our churches, our clubs, our friends, our roots. Heck, even the local public librarian knows me! 😁
Also wanted to mention that improvements in car
safety features such as backup cameras, blindspot indicators, driver assist braking allow Boomers to continue driving safely. Large, illuminated street signs and improved GPS navigation systems also help. These are not as spectacular as self-driving cars, but help keep Boomers (and later Gen-Xers!) driving safely longer.
* “the oldest are just turning 80”
He reposted something he wrote ten years ago.
Ohhhhh yeah I forgot this was re-posted! I was about to comment like “Ahem! What about Gen X?! You’re lumping 52yo’s in with the Boomers!” But those 52yo’s he referenced would be 62 now, which does make sense🤓
Ahh I missed that from the intro. Thanks.
What a strangely romanticized view of the city. I live in a city. They’re not all NYC or Paris. The public transportation here is spotty, unreliable and unsafe. The streets are not very walkable - I live within walking distance of many things but I rarely walk places because it’s not very safe or enjoyable to do in my area. Most of the theaters and bookstores are in the suburbs. The libraries are smaller and the programming is most focused on homeless outreach. The programs for kids and seniors are mostly hosted at suburban branches. There are few grocery stores here, and they’re smaller with less selection than their suburban counterparts. My doctor is in the suburbs…going to a massive hospital complex and trying to find parking every time I wanted to see my GP got old.
The nice senior living condos with services that we are trying to get my grandmother (Silent Generation) to move into are not in the city, they’re in the Poconos. The ones we looked at around here when my Boomer MiL had a health scare were in the suburbs too. The ones in the city were smaller, older, and more run-down. My boomer parents moved to a condo in NYC after they became empty nesters, but after a few years realized they really missed the peace and quiet and the ability to garden and walk the neighborhood, so they moved to a smaller detached home in a New England village and they’re much happier.
Cities are not a magical solution to any problem, and they have many of their own.
"they really missed the peace and quiet "
A valued, by many, attribute that few cities possess that is too often overlooked.
Was this survey given to other age groups? It only makes sense to mock boomers for these attitudes if they're boomer-specific. I'm not sure the younger generations are, or will be, less apt to deny their own mortality. I could be wrong, of course. It would also be interesting to know how attitudes might differ in other countries (I'm assuming it's America you're talking about).
I cannot get my 91 year old mother out of her house and into a well-located apartment. She is healthy and active thank God. But she is pouring so much money, time, and effort into that house. What a waste. It’s not just the boomers.
“The baby boomer generation is huge, roughly 78 million Americans born between the years of 1946 and 1964. The oldest are just turning 70 and the youngest are just 52”
I think your math is a little wonky. The oldest are almost 80 and the youngest are 61.
I was about to write the same, but I see that this article professes to be a reprint from 2016.
1946 and 1964 - that makes them 60 to 78 yrs old. Not 52 to 60 something.
Revise - the oldest are just turning 80.
I will, respectfully, disagree. Anecdotal examples can be found to try to prop up any argument one may care to make no matter how specious. I am not arguing that cities do not have crime or that the criminal justice system does not make mistakes. However, the conclusion that one should generally be scared to live in a city is quite simply unsupported crap and using it to support the continuation of the wasteful, environmentally nightmarish suburban sprawl that has dominated housing growth for a couple of generations now is to pile crap upon crap. IMHO.
Sprawl. OK, Arthur, what is the percentage of the US land mass that is taken up by housing and related infrastructure (eg. roads)?