While I won’t disagree with the general idea that we should be burning less stuff, we need to be careful when weighing and balancing risk. We have created a global crises in health care by prescribing broad spectrum antibiotics as a reflex to any minor complaint that might, possibly, maybe be bacterial just so doctors can sooth the anxieties of panicking hypochondriacs set off by the latest “study” and in an effort to sustain an inhumane food production system. We poison our homes by scrubbing our counters and floors and walls and toilets and sinks and ourselves with viciously toxic chemicals in a misguided attempt to create operating room sterile conditions in our homes and then are surprised when our kids start developing all sorts of allergies, cancers and gastrointestinal problems. We build homes oversized homes and construct them out of and fill them with products made with chemicals that our physical systems have no evolutionary capacity to manage. Because they are so large they cost a fortune to heat and cool so, rather than make them smaller, we seal them up until we are effectively living inside a plastic bag. Then, to try to prevent the inevitable suffocation and poisoning that would otherwise follow, we install complicated hvac systems that require sophisticated and dedicated levels of monitoring and regular and expensive maintenance that almost nobody properly monitors or maintains and then wonder why we end up with all sorts of health problems related to indoor air quality. We approach problems created largely by our insatiable appetite to have more stuff as fixable with more stuff rather than stepping back and asking weather we need or even really want it or if we are just rats trained to flip the lever to get our next hit of whatever “drug” is pushed on us by the marketing machinery of a global production system premised on the delusional idea that perpetual economic growth is viable long term proposition. Gas stoves and similar straw men are not in the end our real problem. Our real problem is the failure to embrace the idea that, once the basic needs of food, shelter and security are met, having less stuff is the key to a door behind which lies the real possibility of more and better life, for us and the rest of those that share this rock.
You make the argument for living outdoors in a native material-made lean-to subsisting on foraged nuts, seeds, fruit, and roots. Y'all are good to do that if you please—the rest of us will enjoy modern amenities.
If you follow the evidence in the links for the claim, "gas stoves...pump out twice as much as when cooking on an electric stove," you come to a US DOE study about 2.5 emissions. I browsed through it and there is not a lot of evidence that supports this claim strongly.
That's because PM2.5 comes from the food itself you're cooking, not the gas you're combusting (or not combusting.) But don't expect an anti-gas zealot like Lloyd to acknowledge said fact.
Radon is a big thing here in western PA. We have to have tests done prior to buying a house (but no regulations for renters!). If the level is high enough, there are mitigations about venting the basements. It's one of those things that because of the geologic formations of the region, we are likely to have it, but the only thing you can do is vent it to the outside.
I understand that in new construction, floor slabs can be insulated and sealed against radon intrusion. Sealing waste and other pipes has to be done carefully.
Last night I was watching HGTV renovation programmes (my vice!) and noticed in ALL the renovations and 'improvements' the electric stoves were removed and gas stoves were substituted (albeit with effective (?) range hoods. The fossil fuel fetish persists...
"...paid by the American Gas Association to do so".
Ah yes, the normal complaint when the general public decides to fulfill their wants and needs that "violate" the Narrative being portrayed. It just CAN'T be that others have a choice in "this matter" (whatever it is), the Narrative givers just HAVE to have someone to blame and it's normally "XYZ industry" group.
Or the other ready-to-throw-out-there standard - "You need to educate yourselves!!!".
There is about as much choice that's tolerated as Petey B.' agency making it mandatory that electronic road signs must remain humorless.
"they may well be being paid by the American Gas Association to do so"
They may well just want a dope appliance that can provide 100.000BTU's of ripping hot flame to stir fry, too.
I find it funny that the go-to response in situations like this is no different than the conspiracy theories these same people pretend the far-right believe in. And when pressed for evidential proof, their go-to response is, "I just **know** it's true."
Ri-i-ight. And I suppose the moon landing was faked on a sound stage in Burbank, CA as well?
This is such a class inequality issue as well. My family can’t afford an electric stove. Most people in our area can’t. We live in industrial areas and face the consequences of all of the poison in the air. We’re told to do our part and switch to electric. But it’s just not that simple. There needs to be way more government subsidies in electric utilities.
I dryly note that if we "stopped burning stuff", your electric stove might turn into a boat anchor from lack of electricity immediately (depending if you are powered by hydro or not - but that might not last much longer - look at what the river activists are about to bring about in Alaska and other northwestern states).
Remember "It's for the fish!" that you give up your electric stove if traditional energy sources are outlawed.
This all came to my attention (but not in fine technical detail) when I read 'CHOKED - the age of air pollution and the fight for a cleaner future' by Beth Gardiner ISBN 978 1 84627 6453 https://granta.com/products/choked/
While I won’t disagree with the general idea that we should be burning less stuff, we need to be careful when weighing and balancing risk. We have created a global crises in health care by prescribing broad spectrum antibiotics as a reflex to any minor complaint that might, possibly, maybe be bacterial just so doctors can sooth the anxieties of panicking hypochondriacs set off by the latest “study” and in an effort to sustain an inhumane food production system. We poison our homes by scrubbing our counters and floors and walls and toilets and sinks and ourselves with viciously toxic chemicals in a misguided attempt to create operating room sterile conditions in our homes and then are surprised when our kids start developing all sorts of allergies, cancers and gastrointestinal problems. We build homes oversized homes and construct them out of and fill them with products made with chemicals that our physical systems have no evolutionary capacity to manage. Because they are so large they cost a fortune to heat and cool so, rather than make them smaller, we seal them up until we are effectively living inside a plastic bag. Then, to try to prevent the inevitable suffocation and poisoning that would otherwise follow, we install complicated hvac systems that require sophisticated and dedicated levels of monitoring and regular and expensive maintenance that almost nobody properly monitors or maintains and then wonder why we end up with all sorts of health problems related to indoor air quality. We approach problems created largely by our insatiable appetite to have more stuff as fixable with more stuff rather than stepping back and asking weather we need or even really want it or if we are just rats trained to flip the lever to get our next hit of whatever “drug” is pushed on us by the marketing machinery of a global production system premised on the delusional idea that perpetual economic growth is viable long term proposition. Gas stoves and similar straw men are not in the end our real problem. Our real problem is the failure to embrace the idea that, once the basic needs of food, shelter and security are met, having less stuff is the key to a door behind which lies the real possibility of more and better life, for us and the rest of those that share this rock.
You make the argument for living outdoors in a native material-made lean-to subsisting on foraged nuts, seeds, fruit, and roots. Y'all are good to do that if you please—the rest of us will enjoy modern amenities.
If you follow the evidence in the links for the claim, "gas stoves...pump out twice as much as when cooking on an electric stove," you come to a US DOE study about 2.5 emissions. I browsed through it and there is not a lot of evidence that supports this claim strongly.
That's because PM2.5 comes from the food itself you're cooking, not the gas you're combusting (or not combusting.) But don't expect an anti-gas zealot like Lloyd to acknowledge said fact.
Radon is a big thing here in western PA. We have to have tests done prior to buying a house (but no regulations for renters!). If the level is high enough, there are mitigations about venting the basements. It's one of those things that because of the geologic formations of the region, we are likely to have it, but the only thing you can do is vent it to the outside.
I understand that in new construction, floor slabs can be insulated and sealed against radon intrusion. Sealing waste and other pipes has to be done carefully.
Where I live along Hwy 101 in Silicon Valley the DALY is 10 compared to the high income neighborhoods five miles to the west. Segregation is toxic.
Last night I was watching HGTV renovation programmes (my vice!) and noticed in ALL the renovations and 'improvements' the electric stoves were removed and gas stoves were substituted (albeit with effective (?) range hoods. The fossil fuel fetish persists...
they may well be being paid by the American Gas Association to do so
"...paid by the American Gas Association to do so".
Ah yes, the normal complaint when the general public decides to fulfill their wants and needs that "violate" the Narrative being portrayed. It just CAN'T be that others have a choice in "this matter" (whatever it is), the Narrative givers just HAVE to have someone to blame and it's normally "XYZ industry" group.
Or the other ready-to-throw-out-there standard - "You need to educate yourselves!!!".
There is about as much choice that's tolerated as Petey B.' agency making it mandatory that electronic road signs must remain humorless.
Buzzkills in the no-fun zones.
"they may well be being paid by the American Gas Association to do so"
They may well just want a dope appliance that can provide 100.000BTU's of ripping hot flame to stir fry, too.
I find it funny that the go-to response in situations like this is no different than the conspiracy theories these same people pretend the far-right believe in. And when pressed for evidential proof, their go-to response is, "I just **know** it's true."
Ri-i-ight. And I suppose the moon landing was faked on a sound stage in Burbank, CA as well?
This is such a class inequality issue as well. My family can’t afford an electric stove. Most people in our area can’t. We live in industrial areas and face the consequences of all of the poison in the air. We’re told to do our part and switch to electric. But it’s just not that simple. There needs to be way more government subsidies in electric utilities.
Maybe if you didn't have all the green energy mandates being forcibly imposed on the consumer, that electric stove wouldn't cost so much to operate.
Then again, maybe you could just plug it into your government-funded Tesla when you wanna use it ...
I see you’re also a carbon upfront reader. Are you... arguing with me? I cannot tell
RADON is not likely to be an issue in the Greater Toronto Area.
I dryly note that if we "stopped burning stuff", your electric stove might turn into a boat anchor from lack of electricity immediately (depending if you are powered by hydro or not - but that might not last much longer - look at what the river activists are about to bring about in Alaska and other northwestern states).
Remember "It's for the fish!" that you give up your electric stove if traditional energy sources are outlawed.
This all came to my attention (but not in fine technical detail) when I read 'CHOKED - the age of air pollution and the fight for a cleaner future' by Beth Gardiner ISBN 978 1 84627 6453 https://granta.com/products/choked/