I have read Foley, and your piece, and basically agree. I would add that there is a role for animals in agriculture, just as there are in ecosystems. After all, grazing animals evolved in ecosystems, as did seed and insect eaters like chickens, and ground grubbers like pigs. The problem lies in raising them outside their ecosystems without the boundaries provided by predators, who keep them from eating the ecosystems to death. Cattle overgraze if not chased by wolves, or their human managers. Rapid rotational grazing, including on cropland, as recommended by Holistic Management, within ecosystems where grazers are native, works. Raising pigs in a forest, like in Corsica, and this can be done in closed canopy forest of the eastern US, also works. Raising chickens in warmer, mixed use landscapes with lots of cover also works, as they are native to these places (SE Asia). Serious problems arise with all three animals because we grow them and feed them outside the boundaries of their natural ecosystems. Our animal protein production system got so far out of synch because of vertical integration in the industry that depends on externalizing costs to the environment. Increased methane production is just one, and likely not as serious as leaks from the fracking industry. More serious problems stem from massive nutrient overloads in aquatic ecosystems due to intended and unintended leaks via runoff, leaching, erosion and more, either from fertilizer losses on farms, or manure losses from confined animal feeding operations. This meat production system is entirely broken and needs a total redesign if we are to heal violated planetary boundaries.
Also, stopping deforestation in the Amazon, related to beef production, is of highest global priority--we need to safely avoid a tipping point in the rainforest, and some experts are giving warnings about the limits of deforestation.
I'm thinking that we should be asking India to do something about the 307 million head of cattle roaming wild across their country, the largest group of cattle on the planet. America has ~55 million head of cattle but that's only 20M or so more than what we had with the massive bison herds of the 1800's. As I see it, with the traffic congestion, fouling of waterways, and general nuisance status of most of India's sacred cow population, they should be doing more to reign in their numbers—not us, nor Europe.
I don't get the eating crickets thing. There's plenty of protein in legumes and they're very filling and delicious. We only need a bowlful to fill out daily amino acid needs and all plants contain them though in different proportions.
I wonder what the environmental media will start coming for your horses, dogs (they eat meat). Cats (they kill things), oh wait they have already started on those.
One wonders when they start advertising Soylent Green for a food item, or when they will decide that after sixty you're eligible for mandatory euthanasia to the world's population down.
IF we allow agencies who follow (paid for by dark money) to determine what is best for us as individuals, and civilization based on the same obscure studies, that is exactly what will happen. If we surrender such a minor freedom of what to eat and enjoy based on what the "experts" recommend, then we as a whole deserve none of our freedoms, and we deserved warning labels on wetcell batteries warning us not to drink their contents.
This is why I prefer Bison. They are a native species and their meat is better for you.
However, as to giving it up, I will give up my small bison herd when celebrities and other royalty give up their private jets, and start eating foods grown locally, rather than have them imported from who knows what country.
The least we can do is ask our legislators to support the Farm System Reform Act of 2023 (S.271) which is designed to phase out large factory farms by 2040. It includes a plan to assist farmers transitioning away from the current system (I know, I'm as cynical as the next person when I hear promises like that). I believe it's now in committee and probably won't see the light of day without a great deal more pressure.
I live a half block from one of the best burger joints in San Diego. Walking past, seeing dozens of folks chomping down on those perfectly charred patties (and oh, that aroma!), I think that Odysseus, lashed to the mast of his ship and beckoned by the Sirens' songs, did not come close to the temptations this restaurant poses to me.
I had been doing my best to remain beef free until weakness and dizzy spells sent me to the doctor. "You've got to get more protein in your diet," he told me. On the way home from his office, I stopped for chicken and beef tacos. I felt terrific!
I am eating more meat, but I'm trying to keep it to chicken, even pork. We HAVE to reduce beef consumption as much as possible.
The Foley article would take a long time to check on accuracy--so many scientific and technical claims, from methane emissions to soil carbon to global carbon cycles. One thing that makes me wonder about Drawdown and Regeneration (the books by this project) is the authoritative claims about economy and science without any evidence provided. Despite that, I'm still a fan, but a hesitant one. Drawing down carbon and regenerating natural systems are high priorities.
Likewise, one would need to delve in to beef emissions claims; I imagine we need more science and studies on those for more accuracy, while the variance in farmland and methods might make universal claims difficult. Atmospheric, ocean, and soil science in regard to carbon and methane cycles still has gaps in understanding--this will take time.
But, I do think:
-Americans can cut beef consumption considerably and see gains. The Mediterranean diet recommends red meat once or so a month.
-Pasture- and humanely raised animals should replace feedlots and CAFOs. Some lands in the US are best for grazing, such as in the West, where you can't grow crops in those places.
-Croplands growing animal feed could grow other crops, and some could be reforested/rewild'ed to offset pastured beef emissions.
-Some of the Great Plains could be reverted to buffalo prairie, bringing back the perennial tall grasses that sequester carbon and build soil. Perhaps have Native Americans manage some of these and the resulting bison meat trade.
I have read Foley, and your piece, and basically agree. I would add that there is a role for animals in agriculture, just as there are in ecosystems. After all, grazing animals evolved in ecosystems, as did seed and insect eaters like chickens, and ground grubbers like pigs. The problem lies in raising them outside their ecosystems without the boundaries provided by predators, who keep them from eating the ecosystems to death. Cattle overgraze if not chased by wolves, or their human managers. Rapid rotational grazing, including on cropland, as recommended by Holistic Management, within ecosystems where grazers are native, works. Raising pigs in a forest, like in Corsica, and this can be done in closed canopy forest of the eastern US, also works. Raising chickens in warmer, mixed use landscapes with lots of cover also works, as they are native to these places (SE Asia). Serious problems arise with all three animals because we grow them and feed them outside the boundaries of their natural ecosystems. Our animal protein production system got so far out of synch because of vertical integration in the industry that depends on externalizing costs to the environment. Increased methane production is just one, and likely not as serious as leaks from the fracking industry. More serious problems stem from massive nutrient overloads in aquatic ecosystems due to intended and unintended leaks via runoff, leaching, erosion and more, either from fertilizer losses on farms, or manure losses from confined animal feeding operations. This meat production system is entirely broken and needs a total redesign if we are to heal violated planetary boundaries.
Also, stopping deforestation in the Amazon, related to beef production, is of highest global priority--we need to safely avoid a tipping point in the rainforest, and some experts are giving warnings about the limits of deforestation.
"“They want to take your pickup truck. They want to rebuild your home. They want to take away your hamburgers.".
Well, it's clear that someone has nailed the first two down pat. And with this "Do Less":
"...But reading Foley’s article has me thinking that meat should be off the menu again."
The "climatarian" trifecta!
I'm thinking that we should be asking India to do something about the 307 million head of cattle roaming wild across their country, the largest group of cattle on the planet. America has ~55 million head of cattle but that's only 20M or so more than what we had with the massive bison herds of the 1800's. As I see it, with the traffic congestion, fouling of waterways, and general nuisance status of most of India's sacred cow population, they should be doing more to reign in their numbers—not us, nor Europe.
I don't get the eating crickets thing. There's plenty of protein in legumes and they're very filling and delicious. We only need a bowlful to fill out daily amino acid needs and all plants contain them though in different proportions.
Finally some sanity.
I wonder what the environmental media will start coming for your horses, dogs (they eat meat). Cats (they kill things), oh wait they have already started on those.
One wonders when they start advertising Soylent Green for a food item, or when they will decide that after sixty you're eligible for mandatory euthanasia to the world's population down.
IF we allow agencies who follow (paid for by dark money) to determine what is best for us as individuals, and civilization based on the same obscure studies, that is exactly what will happen. If we surrender such a minor freedom of what to eat and enjoy based on what the "experts" recommend, then we as a whole deserve none of our freedoms, and we deserved warning labels on wetcell batteries warning us not to drink their contents.
C'mon Jack! Whaddya got against Soylent Green?
This is why I prefer Bison. They are a native species and their meat is better for you.
However, as to giving it up, I will give up my small bison herd when celebrities and other royalty give up their private jets, and start eating foods grown locally, rather than have them imported from who knows what country.
Herbivorous mammals ranked by methane emissions per pound of meat, do we have something like that graph?
The least we can do is ask our legislators to support the Farm System Reform Act of 2023 (S.271) which is designed to phase out large factory farms by 2040. It includes a plan to assist farmers transitioning away from the current system (I know, I'm as cynical as the next person when I hear promises like that). I believe it's now in committee and probably won't see the light of day without a great deal more pressure.
I live a half block from one of the best burger joints in San Diego. Walking past, seeing dozens of folks chomping down on those perfectly charred patties (and oh, that aroma!), I think that Odysseus, lashed to the mast of his ship and beckoned by the Sirens' songs, did not come close to the temptations this restaurant poses to me.
I had been doing my best to remain beef free until weakness and dizzy spells sent me to the doctor. "You've got to get more protein in your diet," he told me. On the way home from his office, I stopped for chicken and beef tacos. I felt terrific!
I am eating more meat, but I'm trying to keep it to chicken, even pork. We HAVE to reduce beef consumption as much as possible.
The Foley article would take a long time to check on accuracy--so many scientific and technical claims, from methane emissions to soil carbon to global carbon cycles. One thing that makes me wonder about Drawdown and Regeneration (the books by this project) is the authoritative claims about economy and science without any evidence provided. Despite that, I'm still a fan, but a hesitant one. Drawing down carbon and regenerating natural systems are high priorities.
Likewise, one would need to delve in to beef emissions claims; I imagine we need more science and studies on those for more accuracy, while the variance in farmland and methods might make universal claims difficult. Atmospheric, ocean, and soil science in regard to carbon and methane cycles still has gaps in understanding--this will take time.
But, I do think:
-Americans can cut beef consumption considerably and see gains. The Mediterranean diet recommends red meat once or so a month.
-Pasture- and humanely raised animals should replace feedlots and CAFOs. Some lands in the US are best for grazing, such as in the West, where you can't grow crops in those places.
-Croplands growing animal feed could grow other crops, and some could be reforested/rewild'ed to offset pastured beef emissions.
-Some of the Great Plains could be reverted to buffalo prairie, bringing back the perennial tall grasses that sequester carbon and build soil. Perhaps have Native Americans manage some of these and the resulting bison meat trade.
What I see with Drawdown's messaging is that the overriding importance of the energy transition gets short shrift.