At 78, living as I do on a small farm five miles from the closest town, and fifty from the closest city where modern services are available, I relate strongly to this essay.
I have reached the place where I hate to drive. I spent most of yesterday behind the wheel, running from government office to government office to doctor's office.
My dream is to park my car and use strictly my donkeys and buggy. That means everything but Richmond is out of range.
We have designed a truly absurd system, wasting resources and lives, not because we needed it but because the physical experience of speed pleases humans, particularly young humans.
You might take a look at my writings both here and on Twitter since 2018, as I have looked at all these issues in public. Possiblity even prior to suggesting I look at blah blah.
Why? Do you prove that the oil companies don't have anything to do with the development of the interstate highway system? That would be something to see.
The interstate highway system was designed to facilitate the expeditious flow of military vehicles in time of war. After WWII, the system transitioned to interstate commerce. Big Oil had nothing to do with it; it was all about the economy and efficiency of transportation.
The "post war" system wasn't transitioned to commerce. It never lost its military purpose, which is why is happened so quickly. The Cold War was expected to become hot.
This also neatly coincided with the interests of oil companies and auto manufacturers who could both sell more product if people were more spread out. These are both industries that would have been highly involved in the politics of the time, and still are today.
Both also would have been involved in high-level military planning since both of their capacities would be needed by the state in the event of another major war.
Big Oil (and big industry) IS the government effectively.
Speed is fun, true. But we actually built this individual car system because oil executives were greedy, as rich people are, and promoted individual vehicles incessantly!
Being greedy is when you use your power and influence to kill off other alternatives to what you’re selling, until people have basically no alternative but to buy what you’re selling. It’s why public transit is miserable in most places in North America, and why people like the premier of Ontario are hellbent on ripping up bike lanes.
Exactly! The oil industry basically invented serious corporate lobbying. Poured millions into campaigns against public transportation, they single-handedly destroyed Amtrak, built up trucking as a major driver of industrial transportation over cargo trains.
You obviously don’t know the history of the oil companies basically inventing serious lobbying and dark money in politics, they saw any improvement to public transportation, which was on a skyrocketing trajectory, as a threat to them, they could have reinvested and created the supply of energy for PT, but their greed took over! To the detriment of all Americans. Fuck, we aren’t even good drivers in this country
It’s wack. Physicians used to make house-calls. Some health advocates still do it clandestinely and under different titles, but they’re hard to find. Government offices should send agents around to the older folks if they want their system to stay alive so badly. But hey, if someone doesn’t get the help they need, then that’s resources the state doesn’t have to dole out, amirite?
"In March 2024, Mary Fong Lau, 78 years old at the time, drove her Mercedes SUV at 72MPH into a bus shelter, killing a family of four."
Considering that the driver was the oldest, the family(could not find their ages) looking like the parents were in their 20's or 30's and the children under 10. I think your last sentence was not needed.
You overstate the necessity of driving. Driving is mostly not necessary for old or young. There is online ordering for home delivery. For personal appearance there is uber/lyft/... , in some cases there is walking/bicycling/transit..., in some cases there is a virtual.option, in some cases there is foregoing the appearance as optional.
For myself at about 80 in a somewhat urban setting, I go primarily with the walking/bicycling option, rejoicing in minimizing greenhouse gas emissions in the process.
When you live in a small rural town, driving is necessary quite often. There's no Uber or Lyft everywhere. There are no sidewalks. No streetlights. Certainly no public transit.
Maybe don’t live in a small rural town if you’re old? This generation CREATED this problem (in addition to others like climate change which my generation now has to deal with 🙄), so they should fix it themselves. I don’t need anymore of my taxes going to selfish old people who provide NO value to their communities.
I hope I die sometime in my 70s. Watching your generation get older has been a cautionary tale of the dangers of living too long and becoming a burden towards your family and community. Most of us will remember this as the generation of Trump and the MAGA movement!
Tell me - what value did you provide to your community while you were an infant/toddler? You were just a burden. It only got worse when you started school. If that's the way you see and treat the old and the young., then you clearly have zero value in this society.
Trump. MAGA movement. Yep - you're a racist and sexist white person who doesn't see what's going on right under their nose. The man who wants the Nobel Peace Prize has earned it by bombing 7 different countries in one year.
Actually, there’s a HUGE difference between supporting young people and supporting old people. Just a few reasons off the top of my head (there are plenty more):
- Children learn from and depend on adults so they can learn HOW to become decent and productive members of society. It’s our responsibility to teach right from wrong. Old people had these lessons already and isn’t my job to “reteach” them
- The biggest difference, and I can’t emphasize this enough, is that children can’t vote, but every living breathing senior (regardless of class, race, mental acuity) CAN vote! If senile old people are going to exercise their PRIVILEGE of voting, then people like me are going to have something to say. There’s no universe where you can argue that a 96 year old with Alzheimer’s should be allowed to vote, but not a 16 year old honors student.
Lastly, I’m a left-wing progressive, not a dipshit MAGA KKKunt, so don’t compare me with those worthless “people”. I also contribute LESS HARM (far less) to society than a dumbass MAGA Boomer. Boomers are also the generation of Trump, so thanks for that. I hope this generation dies ASAP!!
I don’t want MY tax dollars going to support narcissistic, nihilistic, apathetic sociopaths who lack any resilience or work ethic and who believe they deserve to have everything NOW what people my age worked 30+ years to get.
You haven’t got a clue. You live in a “somewhat urban setting.” Get out of your bubble. Yes, “in some cases.” But not all. Can I send you the bill for the delivery fees and the ride share charges? It’s 10 miles to my husband’s orthopedic doctor and physical therapist. It’s also 10 miles to his cardiologist. Our primary care is 8 miles away. it’s 15 miles to the dermatologist. There is no public transportation from where we live to any of those. The senior center and gym is less than 3 miles — on the other side of the freeway.
I can't speak to your examples, only to the generalities, but poor planning and poor choices degrade access and increase costs. As a matter of policy, we have used the automobile as a substitute for proximity.
AARP has been warning about this for a few decades.
As a city planner who worked in a southwest city for 25 years, let me tell you it’s the absence of planning not poor planning that builds suburban sprawl.
Don't bring reality into it! And I forgot the audiologist and the optometrist and the dentist. On the other hand, we wouldn't need to go to the gym if we did all that walking. 😆
I''m well aware of the many possible costs and challenges of aging. Delivery costs, ride share costs ... - just scratching the surface. ... Senior living center costs ... Assisted living center costs .... Nursing home costs.
One's search for solutions is about finding/creating solutions that are compatible with one's cases - including possibly changing one's mix of cases.
Growing old can be very difficult. Hope for success in the ongoing challenge of minimizing the difficulties.
It isn't any more difficult than being young. Less, if truth be told. The most difficult part is tolerating patronizing, arrogant young people who think that have all of the answers.
If that's the hardest part of your life yours is a blessed existence.
It's difficult for the rest of us to deal with people who shoot down improvements because of their ideas of "neighborhood character" or property value concerns, affecting the mobility and accessibility for people of all ages.
A friend of mine, ~25 years my senior, told me once that growing old isn’t for sissies. As I age, I realize more and more what she meant by that statement.
Maybe if people in your community were actually willing to pay taxes to FUND the public transit you need, you wouldn’t have this problem! Solve your own problems for once!
You sound like you live where I grew up in St. Louis where no one wants to pay for public transport and where they started associating public transport with “poor” transport. In StL they often associate public transport with poor transport i.e. what black folks use. So they refuse to pay for the taxes to build proper public transport. They had a measure on the ballot for a 0.5 cent increase for the public buses, it got voted down. The buses there run until 10PM. The Metro Link trains have 4 lines, 4. They voted down expanding it because “those people” could take the train to their neighborhoods and … I don’t know … steal a TV and take home on the train. Or some BS like that.
That sounds like Los Angeles back in the 1990s. And it was the case in Baton Rouge, but here public transportation is free. Unfortunately, we live outside of the city center, on the other side of the freeway -- where house prices are lower. There's actually bus service relatively close as the crow flies, but we’d have to be crows to get to it across the freeway or walk/drive 2.5 miles in one direction or 2 miles in the other. We're working on getting a bus line on the major road on the other side of the neighborhood. That would be like half a mile.When these neighborhoods were built in the 80s, they were on the edge of the city. Now there's development to the west, so we're hopeful.
My father has been the go-to computer person for my mother's entire life, and is now the only one with a driver's license. Once Dad is gone, mom will be lost. I'm an only child, and live far away in Europe.
Sure I can order the groceries online for Mom, but she sure won't like having to explain to me what to buy from the grocery store. As it is, she's already sick of cooking, so she and my Dad eat out a lot. That will stop once Dad is gone.
My experience with grocery delivery is that it’s not all it’s cracked up to be. They get the wrong items, they miss items, they deliver items you didn’t order, they charge you for items you didn’t order or get. Sure, you get a refund … but you have to exchange the wrong items and pick up the items they didn’t deliver.
Sounds like getting Mom.up to.speed on using the "computer" should be a top priority. Get to.the point where Mom is proficient at shopping online for delivery, ordering prepared meals for delivery, paying the bills online... Develop the capability to order a Uber/Lyft.. ride should the need arise.
More of my friends are taking the proactive approach of moving into senior living centers - and telling us how well it is working out for them.
Mom moving in with you anytime soon or are you moving home?
It's easier once the survivor is in a care home but house needs to be sold, all involves time.
My 94yo mother needed to move into care after 3 weeks in hospital following a fall that left her on the ground for 3 days. Care is costly but I know she's kept fed, clean and warm.
Not feasible for mom to move in with me. Language and cultural barriers aside, I share a 700 sq ft apartment with my husband in central Paris. It's means we haven't needed a car since 2008, but the trade-off is lack of space.
It is feasible for me to move in with my mother temporarily, but not long term. My mother has alienated her siblings, her own mother, and myself over the years - she's got a difficult personality. I can't see us living long together, but man I can't see her handling group living too well either!
What IS the norm for senior living arrangements in Europe or elsewhere outside North America? I’m genuinely curious about how often the solution is multigenerational living spaces.
Last reply, promise. Here's classic German planning: in the 90s they realized the demographic time bomb that was in store, and created a LTC insurance contribution. It is means-tested.
Apparently, what wealthier, aging Germans do is give their excess money to their kids before they need to go to a home, since the more assets they have on the books, the less the government will subsidize.
And I think most Germans of my in-laws age have healthy state + private inflation-adjusted pensions.
The other insight is how my German in-laws live. First off, they have been happily living in their modest townhouse for 40+ years despite being quite well off.
A fun detail: they share a a paper newspaper subscription with their next door neighbour. He visits every morning after he's finished to drop it off for them, and have a quick chat. All the other 'row-neighbours' know each other too, attend each other's big bday parties etc..
Both in-laws grew up in the area so they have lots of relatives within 1-2 hours drive.
It is at the very edge of their market town, which means there's a nice 'rails to trails' path right across the street, but they need to drive almost everywhere. You can walk to the baker and grocers, but they almost never do unless we're there.
They are also in their early 80s but nonetheless happily traipse up and down their very tight corkscrew staircase to go into the basement pantry to get up to the bedrooms.
I can't generalize, esp as we live in central Paris which is hardly a representative sample of Europe or even France.
What I see in my 12-unit building is pretty interesting, though: we have 2 families where parents live in one apartment, and offspring + grandkids live in another, which is pretty cool.
I know that for 2 other apartments, at least 1 adult child is a short distance away. In fact, my upstairs neighbours are currently in 2 separate hospitals, so their nearby daughter (who used to live in our building too) will often remote work from her parents' place to keep their cat company.
When my neighbour was in the later stages of cancer, I often popped over to help with computer issues as his sight deteriorated, and then also helped his wife navigate her iphone once she was widowed. It's really easy when my door is 1m from hers! (And if she leaves me a message from her land line, I can, alas, hear her speaking into the phone from my living room, although can't make out the words)
We are also all long-term tenants. While we're not N. American neighbourly (we keep to ourselves mostly) we do exchange news and offer to cat-sit, help move furniture etc, share vacation tips and gossip. Having grown up in the 'burbs, I personally prefer this.
Parents moving in with you ... you moving home ... - to be appreciated but not expected - that's what I told my aging parents - that's what I tell my children.
I provided daily care for my aging patents. I moved in with my mom as her full time caretaker for the last three years of her life. But, to be appreciated, not expected.
Except paying someone else to drive is more expensive than driving yourself. Amazon is very inefficient. I see Amazon stopping on my street multiple times per day.
Yes, old age can be costly, inefficient, inconvenient, unpleasant... - certainly more so for some than others depending on how health and aging progress. We can hope for extended good health up until a quick death, but many are not so blessed.
It isn't about cars per se or land use per se (I mean it is, but not entirely); it's that a whole lifetime of using a car to go wherever you want whenever you want deeply acculturates you to that mindset, and you are giving up an entire way of existing in the world when you give up a car. Some of that is real and some of that is the automakers' fantasy and some of it necessity, but wherever it comes from it is what people actually experience.
Or maybe the "vehicle sans permis" that buzz around here in rural France. It won't go above 50 kph (30 mph) as it's basically a lawnmower engine that powers it. You have to have insurance but not a driver's licence. Not recommended for anything other than popping to the store. In fact they are banned from roads where the limit is 110 kph.
Yes, I fear we are soon hitting that wall. There is a powerful tendency to think that we are above or immune to the impacts of aging. Biden and Trump both suffered this delusion. One finally admitted his decline and departed, the other continues to inflict us with his nonsense, and totally ignores the realities of aging, healthcare and driving included. My father had to take the keys from his father. My sister took the keys from my father. Will I allow my children to take the keys away from me, or will I simply surrender them when the time comes, and it will come? I note that Granite Grok added a comment while I typed about self-driving cars as a solution. Perhaps that has some merit in a world without natural resources limits and unlimited space for highway expansion. It does not address the systemic problem we have with transportation, which also includes young people before they can legally drive. What if neighborhoods were designed so that cars were not needed at all? Perhaps you can retrofit neighborhoods to reduce the need to change residences? In any case, the problem of elderly driving needs a wide-boundary analysis and systemic change, not a simple technological tweak.
I'm going to ignore the TDS for this comment - for now.
Yes, at some point, without autonomous vehicles, there will come that day. I took the keys from my Mom - not a pleasant task as she had already been warned by us not allowing our young sons to ride with her anymore. But with self-drivers, this aging problem becomes irrelevant.
Your next section on neighborhoods totally ignores rural areas - it seems that you agree with Lloyd that we all should be "racked and stacked" into urban areas.
So, politically and financially, how would you make that work for the new building and the retrofitting? You see cars as a systematic problem - many on the other side of your observation would see it just like having their keys removed from them for no good reason.
How would you deal with that writ large? No Glittering Generalities need apply.
I’m always amused by the people who comment here who see the world as a modern urban environment with everything conveniently at their fingertips, and everything else outside their personal experience bubble as a “no man’s land” devoid of people or their unique needs.
The 1976 Cover page from the New Yorker magazine comes close: there's NYC, nothing in the middle, and then the pacific (the "elite" world view of themselves).
I agree. I grew up in a very rural setting and we lived off the land to a big extent. Hand dug well with the best water around. Our meat was fish we caught and venison Dad shot. The social structure was fantastic. Then I went to college in San Francisco. Rude awakening. I have lived in urban , suburban and yes lived on a cul de sac. But I have always endeavored to live rurally. Which probably explains my need for RV adventures. May your life continue in a harmonious manner.
I'll add this - excellent engineering can be defined as doing the least amount of change (and cost) to achieve a given output or result. I'm willing to make a wager that what you call a "techno tweak" solves this problem with MUCH less change, MUCH less fuss, and with much less cost while enabling those that lost their mobility regain it quickly.
Change my mind (and don't forget ALL of the politics that goes with your solution).
Biden was demonstrably obvious with his cognitive impairment; he refused to take a cognitive test to reassure the public he was capable of being president. Trump DID take one and passed; just because you disagree with someone’s politics doesn’t make them cognitively dysfunctional.
Having said that, what would “redesigning our neighborhoods” look like? I mean, that’s a HUGE undertaking in both costs and carbon, and not every neighborhood—regardless of size—would or could see a benefit. It might sound cold, calloused, or insensitive, but no one is getting out of this plane of reality alive. It may be inconvenient to the elderly to have them stay in their own homes, but technology is continually evolving and making “the golden years” not just more feasible but also more safe. Would it suck to stick a 78 year old woman in jail for the rest of her life? No, because either way the government is still paying for her existence—and in the prison system, she at least would be afforded the healthcare, nutrition, and housing needs that she will require on the outside.
Different solutions for different neighborhoods. There's a huge empty lot at the entrance to our subdivision behind the Walmart neighborhood market that's big enough for a small public library, a Trader Joe's, a bakery ... There's already a Starbucks and an urgent care in that shopping center.
Long ago I read that there are three events in a man's (sorry) life that are truly horrific: loss of a job, loss of a spouse and loss of a driver's license. I watched my father go through the license event, am now watching my brother endure it, and now contemplate my own moves, turning 84 soon. No solutions here, but it's a BIG problem that needs attention.
No, it is a "Privilege" and not a Right. The latter is cast in stone here in the US in the Bill of Rights section of the US Constitution. They were written to be inviolate (sadly, too many just ignore that).
A Privilege is the opposite. Regardless of whether doing "something" arose organically within Society or put into place by government, it can be changed at any time. Now, there may be no pushback (er, not many riots over removing the penny (1 cent US) from circulation) or LOTS of angry people with a PR war protesting such a removal.
Or in this case, speed governors, additions. Politicians are hesitant because their political lives (and remember, their FIRST job is to get elected, their SECOND job is to get re-elected; anything else is variable). Creating and bringing your mob to their office makes a big difference in their outlooks (even if they personally were in favor of what was changed).
Hi GraniteGrok -- what would you do then with an 81 yarold that still compeat's and wins on drag strips and SCCA race courses in a car he built himself; drives on the street - and has never caused an accident - but was in one that another driver caused - when he was 18.
Take my driver's license away - because younger people - who don't know how to drive - and think they know better - are squawking ?
We don't let under 18's drive without a test because we know that they don't all have the maturity or attention to detail to safely drive with passengers, or at certain times, or whatever.
At the other end of the aging bell curve, people start to lose vision and reaction time (its right there in the article). That doesn't mean that someone who already had exceptional vision and reaction time (like a racecar driver) wouldn't keep more of this skill than average, and still be a safe motorist.
Why does the average aging person, with extremely deteriorated vision and reaction time get a free pass to cause harm?
Points taken, but until you or anyone else can prove; by testing: that an older person has lost either their vision past a point - or their reaction time -- at least in the US; that older person keeps the option of driving.
At least in the US - we don't have someone else totally arbitrarily making that desion - because they have an opinion.
The modern world is all about skills. Sadly, we’ve been conditioned to think outsourcing skills to someone else is better, for any number of reasons. I was taught to drive defensively at all times, regardless of how many other people were on the road with me. It’s a skill that’s kept me out of quite a few accidents with “government sheep” aka deer.
"Conditioning" only takes place in a person - if a person allows it.
Skills can be learned.
1.) I have "officially" a high school education - but
2.) I enlisted in the US Navy - for the education - which I received free of charge - in Electronics School and Radar School - and with my 65+ years of practicing it - doing research / development / US Patenting / a solid-state electric power circuit "up-grade" I uncovered in ET school - which is now being privately developed in Europe, New Zealand, and Australia - not here in the US - as the US Government is, and has been protecting the Oil and Gas Industry here - which my power supply makes "redundant.
3.) I taught my self CAD (computer Aided Drafting) which I made a really good living at - until retiring.
My point is this.
If you have or develop, self-respect, self-determination, and self- perseverence: - you can learn / teach yourself anything; and then put that new knowledge to use.
There are no "reasons" for sitting on one's butt and complaining.
And I cracked up over the "Government sheep" - "been there done that" - being born in Colorado and working summers on my uncle's ranch just outside of Steamboat Springs -- where they get really big and can really mess up a real pick-up - and I would hate to think what one of those big boys would do to the frort end of one ot the spam cans they now call SUVs.
"Giant SUVs are essentially light trucks and require more skill to drive than conventional cars. There should be a separate licence category requiring appropriate driving tests." Some US states, especially Massachusetts and California, had a special license (US spelling) for drivers of Ford Model Ts (model years 1908-1927). The T had three pedals, L to R: high and low speed, reverse, and brake. The throttle (and spark advance) were below the steering wheel. In late 1927, MA drivers of T's had to take a new test because Ford's new Model A adopted what was already the norm of clutch, brake, and throttle. The Model T unfortunately put us on the path of sprawl.
The first mass produced car is relevant to modern history: it led to the creation of the highway system, enabling suburban sprawl, and the existence of modern elderly drivers.
This is pretty straightforward logic if you think about it.
The second world war generated an enormous industrial expansion to produce the weaponry needed: tanks, planes etc on a vast scale, first in Canada, then later in the US as they jumped into the war. After 1945 this excess capacity was switched to producing cars, for which demand had to be created.
Government subsidies were switched from railways to highways. Urban zoning was revised to favour cars over
Pedestrians. Whole neighbourhoods or subdivisions were designed with zoning to make them totally dependent on cars by minimizing public transit and banning all stores and other commercial activity within walking distance. The fabric of our lives was changed in irreversible ways within a generation. Now we are paying the price!
It’s a big oil problem. St. Louis had a lot of public transport when my father (born in 1939) was a kid until Shell Oil bribed and strong armed politicians into ripping it all out. Some of the train cars that serviced StL back then were actually sold to San Francisco. Those cars in SF are still in use funny enough. Capital is the reason we are where we are.
What's too old Lloyd? Are you the arbiter of the driving privileges? Canada seems to be deciding such issues for their citizens. Every time I read an article about Boomers their seems too be some disdain as if Boomers were some unthinking hedonistic beings. I grew up with parents from the depression. I got my first paycheck from picking Prunes at age 8. Some of you may think that is unbelievable, but in rural America in the 50s that was possible. It wasn't big but I loved it. I am on the on SS now, but that is the first government assistance I've ever taken. There are lots of people like me. I'm still driving cross country at 74 and continue to RV as a way to keep us occupied. I've met many people doing the same into their 80s. Take care of yourself Lloyd you'll be their soon enough. I don't believe it's the Chicken Little event you think it is. But that seems to be your MO. Not saying all your writing is off but the Boomers thing sticks in my craw. But then I'm 74, so...
I am there, I am 73 and I gave up my car keys before I had to. I am glad for you (and envious) at your RVing. I am just pointing out that for many, losing their keys comes as a rude shock.
I had to take my Dad's away at 80. But he had dementia. Dementia is almost certainly diet related. I don't intend to have it. I assumed you were younger, which triggered me.
Totally agree Jim - and I'm 81. I see it as the younger set -- crying for mama because they don't know how to anything except play with their brohs on a game-boy or type on a keyboard -- still living in mama's basement at 34.
Good for you, that's great that you and others are still able to safely operate your vehicles and travel like that, I hope to be able to enjoy retirement like that some day.
Not everyone keeps their vision or health to an extent where they can do that. In fact that deterioration is so common that it's worth testing people at a certain age. You pass? Good for you, keep driving.
Fwiw, my own grandfather didn't start showing dementia symptoms until he lost his driving privileges (hit a kid while driving at night with cataracts) and effectively lost access to public life.
Yes, I went through my Dad losing his license. He knew what was going on. We replaced his license with a ID card. He wasn't happy. My explanation was, Dad you don't have a car. His reply, "I can buy a car". It's tough. He taught me to drive at the age of 12 I was driving a 1962 International Scout off road. But, he smoked most of his life and once he retired he stopped physical activity. I'm slowing down myself. The new trailer is keeping me busy. I changed my diet 4 years ago. Seriously low carb. Joint pain went away. Blood pressure is great, weight is within my senior in high school range. Brain fog is gone pretty much. We're not completely carnivore but close.
My wife and I had the same experience with our parents as first her father, then her mother, and then my mother had to give up their keys and resisted though her parents lived in a seniors community and my mother lived with my younger brother and his family and the extended grandchildren stepped up to help. Fortunately my wife and I live in a community well supported by public transit and we are active users for museum, library, and theatre visits - though driving is still preferred for grocery runs and in good weather we can walk to our clinic. Re self driving cars, I am persuaded (yet again after my latest excursions to neighboring states) that self driving cars drive at least as well as about half of the drivers currently on the road.
Boomers follow the culture laid out for them. As does every generation. The nation was laid out for the invention of the automobile. In Cleveland, Ohio they bulldozed through the lower income and ethnic neighborhoods in order to build the interstate hwy system. No one thinks
At 78, living as I do on a small farm five miles from the closest town, and fifty from the closest city where modern services are available, I relate strongly to this essay.
I have reached the place where I hate to drive. I spent most of yesterday behind the wheel, running from government office to government office to doctor's office.
My dream is to park my car and use strictly my donkeys and buggy. That means everything but Richmond is out of range.
We have designed a truly absurd system, wasting resources and lives, not because we needed it but because the physical experience of speed pleases humans, particularly young humans.
No other reason. Fast is fun, die you old fuck.
You might take a look at the influence of Big Oil.
You might take a look at my writings both here and on Twitter since 2018, as I have looked at all these issues in public. Possiblity even prior to suggesting I look at blah blah.
https://mcfaddenj.substack.com/p/whodunit?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android&r=5w1e7
Why? Do you prove that the oil companies don't have anything to do with the development of the interstate highway system? That would be something to see.
Kind of like the drug company has a drug for the side affects for the drug you were prescribed.
The interstate highway system was designed to facilitate the expeditious flow of military vehicles in time of war. After WWII, the system transitioned to interstate commerce. Big Oil had nothing to do with it; it was all about the economy and efficiency of transportation.
The "post war" system wasn't transitioned to commerce. It never lost its military purpose, which is why is happened so quickly. The Cold War was expected to become hot.
This also neatly coincided with the interests of oil companies and auto manufacturers who could both sell more product if people were more spread out. These are both industries that would have been highly involved in the politics of the time, and still are today.
Both also would have been involved in high-level military planning since both of their capacities would be needed by the state in the event of another major war.
Big Oil (and big industry) IS the government effectively.
Speed is fun, true. But we actually built this individual car system because oil executives were greedy, as rich people are, and promoted individual vehicles incessantly!
Is it “being greedy” to offer a product or service that people want to buy, or just when you’re successful when doing it?
Being greedy is when you use your power and influence to kill off other alternatives to what you’re selling, until people have basically no alternative but to buy what you’re selling. It’s why public transit is miserable in most places in North America, and why people like the premier of Ontario are hellbent on ripping up bike lanes.
Exactly! The oil industry basically invented serious corporate lobbying. Poured millions into campaigns against public transportation, they single-handedly destroyed Amtrak, built up trucking as a major driver of industrial transportation over cargo trains.
You obviously don’t know the history of the oil companies basically inventing serious lobbying and dark money in politics, they saw any improvement to public transportation, which was on a skyrocketing trajectory, as a threat to them, they could have reinvested and created the supply of energy for PT, but their greed took over! To the detriment of all Americans. Fuck, we aren’t even good drivers in this country
Autonomous vehicles will solve this problem in the very near future.
Oh yeah oh yeah, we’re all gonna be driving autonomous cars. Are you fucking serious?
Of course we’re not going to be driving autonomous cars, that’s the whole point of.
It’s wack. Physicians used to make house-calls. Some health advocates still do it clandestinely and under different titles, but they’re hard to find. Government offices should send agents around to the older folks if they want their system to stay alive so badly. But hey, if someone doesn’t get the help they need, then that’s resources the state doesn’t have to dole out, amirite?
Totally unacceptable.
"No other reason. Fast is fun, die you old f..k."
"In March 2024, Mary Fong Lau, 78 years old at the time, drove her Mercedes SUV at 72MPH into a bus shelter, killing a family of four."
Considering that the driver was the oldest, the family(could not find their ages) looking like the parents were in their 20's or 30's and the children under 10. I think your last sentence was not needed.
You overstate the necessity of driving. Driving is mostly not necessary for old or young. There is online ordering for home delivery. For personal appearance there is uber/lyft/... , in some cases there is walking/bicycling/transit..., in some cases there is a virtual.option, in some cases there is foregoing the appearance as optional.
For myself at about 80 in a somewhat urban setting, I go primarily with the walking/bicycling option, rejoicing in minimizing greenhouse gas emissions in the process.
When you live in a small rural town, driving is necessary quite often. There's no Uber or Lyft everywhere. There are no sidewalks. No streetlights. Certainly no public transit.
Maybe don’t live in a small rural town if you’re old? This generation CREATED this problem (in addition to others like climate change which my generation now has to deal with 🙄), so they should fix it themselves. I don’t need anymore of my taxes going to selfish old people who provide NO value to their communities.
We were in our 40s when we moved here.
I've spent 20 years or so (unpaid) on my town planning boards. I've served on a variety of other boards.
I don't need my taxes going to educate your kids. But I pay them gladly.
Selfish old people? Fuck you.
May you live to be old.
I hope I die sometime in my 70s. Watching your generation get older has been a cautionary tale of the dangers of living too long and becoming a burden towards your family and community. Most of us will remember this as the generation of Trump and the MAGA movement!
Tell me - what value did you provide to your community while you were an infant/toddler? You were just a burden. It only got worse when you started school. If that's the way you see and treat the old and the young., then you clearly have zero value in this society.
Trump. MAGA movement. Yep - you're a racist and sexist white person who doesn't see what's going on right under their nose. The man who wants the Nobel Peace Prize has earned it by bombing 7 different countries in one year.
Actually, there’s a HUGE difference between supporting young people and supporting old people. Just a few reasons off the top of my head (there are plenty more):
- Children learn from and depend on adults so they can learn HOW to become decent and productive members of society. It’s our responsibility to teach right from wrong. Old people had these lessons already and isn’t my job to “reteach” them
- The biggest difference, and I can’t emphasize this enough, is that children can’t vote, but every living breathing senior (regardless of class, race, mental acuity) CAN vote! If senile old people are going to exercise their PRIVILEGE of voting, then people like me are going to have something to say. There’s no universe where you can argue that a 96 year old with Alzheimer’s should be allowed to vote, but not a 16 year old honors student.
Lastly, I’m a left-wing progressive, not a dipshit MAGA KKKunt, so don’t compare me with those worthless “people”. I also contribute LESS HARM (far less) to society than a dumbass MAGA Boomer. Boomers are also the generation of Trump, so thanks for that. I hope this generation dies ASAP!!
Why shouldn't you be able to walk around a small rural town? Wouldn't that benefit all of the residents?
I don’t want MY tax dollars going to support narcissistic, nihilistic, apathetic sociopaths who lack any resilience or work ethic and who believe they deserve to have everything NOW what people my age worked 30+ years to get.
Are you done bitching yet, or am I gonna have to mute your wrinkly ass?
You haven’t got a clue. You live in a “somewhat urban setting.” Get out of your bubble. Yes, “in some cases.” But not all. Can I send you the bill for the delivery fees and the ride share charges? It’s 10 miles to my husband’s orthopedic doctor and physical therapist. It’s also 10 miles to his cardiologist. Our primary care is 8 miles away. it’s 15 miles to the dermatologist. There is no public transportation from where we live to any of those. The senior center and gym is less than 3 miles — on the other side of the freeway.
I can't speak to your examples, only to the generalities, but poor planning and poor choices degrade access and increase costs. As a matter of policy, we have used the automobile as a substitute for proximity.
AARP has been warning about this for a few decades.
https://www.aarp.org/livable-communities/
As a city planner who worked in a southwest city for 25 years, let me tell you it’s the absence of planning not poor planning that builds suburban sprawl.
It's largely poor planning that creates sprawl. Those highways and stroads did not build themselves! Highways to the suburbs is the plan!!!
I believe that was my point.
Presumably he knows a thing or two about walking ?
Then he would know ten miles one way is an ALL DAY trip , unless you're a fucking Olympic athlete.
Round trip would take you past sundown .
Hitch - hiking has been stigmatized , camping out on someone's lawn over - night was de - normed about 80 years ago ,
And --- oh , never mind !
Wanna - be preachers are gonna preach no matter how absurd their sermon is .
Don't bring reality into it! And I forgot the audiologist and the optometrist and the dentist. On the other hand, we wouldn't need to go to the gym if we did all that walking. 😆
I''m well aware of the many possible costs and challenges of aging. Delivery costs, ride share costs ... - just scratching the surface. ... Senior living center costs ... Assisted living center costs .... Nursing home costs.
One's search for solutions is about finding/creating solutions that are compatible with one's cases - including possibly changing one's mix of cases.
Growing old can be very difficult. Hope for success in the ongoing challenge of minimizing the difficulties.
It isn't any more difficult than being young. Less, if truth be told. The most difficult part is tolerating patronizing, arrogant young people who think that have all of the answers.
Funny. That’s a little what you sound like.
My thoughts exactly!!
If that's the hardest part of your life yours is a blessed existence.
It's difficult for the rest of us to deal with people who shoot down improvements because of their ideas of "neighborhood character" or property value concerns, affecting the mobility and accessibility for people of all ages.
What makes you think that's the hardest part of my life? What makes you think that we aren't dealing with that, too?
"The most difficult part is tolerating patronizing, arrogant young people who think that have all of the answers." - You
A friend of mine, ~25 years my senior, told me once that growing old isn’t for sissies. As I age, I realize more and more what she meant by that statement.
I believe Bette Davis said that first.
Maybe if people in your community were actually willing to pay taxes to FUND the public transit you need, you wouldn’t have this problem! Solve your own problems for once!
Tell me where I live, Rob.
You sound like you live where I grew up in St. Louis where no one wants to pay for public transport and where they started associating public transport with “poor” transport. In StL they often associate public transport with poor transport i.e. what black folks use. So they refuse to pay for the taxes to build proper public transport. They had a measure on the ballot for a 0.5 cent increase for the public buses, it got voted down. The buses there run until 10PM. The Metro Link trains have 4 lines, 4. They voted down expanding it because “those people” could take the train to their neighborhoods and … I don’t know … steal a TV and take home on the train. Or some BS like that.
That sounds like Los Angeles back in the 1990s. And it was the case in Baton Rouge, but here public transportation is free. Unfortunately, we live outside of the city center, on the other side of the freeway -- where house prices are lower. There's actually bus service relatively close as the crow flies, but we’d have to be crows to get to it across the freeway or walk/drive 2.5 miles in one direction or 2 miles in the other. We're working on getting a bus line on the major road on the other side of the neighborhood. That would be like half a mile.When these neighborhoods were built in the 80s, they were on the edge of the city. Now there's development to the west, so we're hopeful.
My father has been the go-to computer person for my mother's entire life, and is now the only one with a driver's license. Once Dad is gone, mom will be lost. I'm an only child, and live far away in Europe.
Sure I can order the groceries online for Mom, but she sure won't like having to explain to me what to buy from the grocery store. As it is, she's already sick of cooking, so she and my Dad eat out a lot. That will stop once Dad is gone.
My experience with grocery delivery is that it’s not all it’s cracked up to be. They get the wrong items, they miss items, they deliver items you didn’t order, they charge you for items you didn’t order or get. Sure, you get a refund … but you have to exchange the wrong items and pick up the items they didn’t deliver.
Sounds like getting Mom.up to.speed on using the "computer" should be a top priority. Get to.the point where Mom is proficient at shopping online for delivery, ordering prepared meals for delivery, paying the bills online... Develop the capability to order a Uber/Lyft.. ride should the need arise.
More of my friends are taking the proactive approach of moving into senior living centers - and telling us how well it is working out for them.
Mom moving in with you anytime soon or are you moving home?
It's easier once the survivor is in a care home but house needs to be sold, all involves time.
My 94yo mother needed to move into care after 3 weeks in hospital following a fall that left her on the ground for 3 days. Care is costly but I know she's kept fed, clean and warm.
Not feasible for mom to move in with me. Language and cultural barriers aside, I share a 700 sq ft apartment with my husband in central Paris. It's means we haven't needed a car since 2008, but the trade-off is lack of space.
It is feasible for me to move in with my mother temporarily, but not long term. My mother has alienated her siblings, her own mother, and myself over the years - she's got a difficult personality. I can't see us living long together, but man I can't see her handling group living too well either!
What IS the norm for senior living arrangements in Europe or elsewhere outside North America? I’m genuinely curious about how often the solution is multigenerational living spaces.
Last reply, promise. Here's classic German planning: in the 90s they realized the demographic time bomb that was in store, and created a LTC insurance contribution. It is means-tested.
Apparently, what wealthier, aging Germans do is give their excess money to their kids before they need to go to a home, since the more assets they have on the books, the less the government will subsidize.
And I think most Germans of my in-laws age have healthy state + private inflation-adjusted pensions.
The other insight is how my German in-laws live. First off, they have been happily living in their modest townhouse for 40+ years despite being quite well off.
A fun detail: they share a a paper newspaper subscription with their next door neighbour. He visits every morning after he's finished to drop it off for them, and have a quick chat. All the other 'row-neighbours' know each other too, attend each other's big bday parties etc..
Both in-laws grew up in the area so they have lots of relatives within 1-2 hours drive.
It is at the very edge of their market town, which means there's a nice 'rails to trails' path right across the street, but they need to drive almost everywhere. You can walk to the baker and grocers, but they almost never do unless we're there.
They are also in their early 80s but nonetheless happily traipse up and down their very tight corkscrew staircase to go into the basement pantry to get up to the bedrooms.
I can't generalize, esp as we live in central Paris which is hardly a representative sample of Europe or even France.
What I see in my 12-unit building is pretty interesting, though: we have 2 families where parents live in one apartment, and offspring + grandkids live in another, which is pretty cool.
I know that for 2 other apartments, at least 1 adult child is a short distance away. In fact, my upstairs neighbours are currently in 2 separate hospitals, so their nearby daughter (who used to live in our building too) will often remote work from her parents' place to keep their cat company.
When my neighbour was in the later stages of cancer, I often popped over to help with computer issues as his sight deteriorated, and then also helped his wife navigate her iphone once she was widowed. It's really easy when my door is 1m from hers! (And if she leaves me a message from her land line, I can, alas, hear her speaking into the phone from my living room, although can't make out the words)
We are also all long-term tenants. While we're not N. American neighbourly (we keep to ourselves mostly) we do exchange news and offer to cat-sit, help move furniture etc, share vacation tips and gossip. Having grown up in the 'burbs, I personally prefer this.
Parents moving in with you ... you moving home ... - to be appreciated but not expected - that's what I told my aging parents - that's what I tell my children.
I provided daily care for my aging patents. I moved in with my mom as her full time caretaker for the last three years of her life. But, to be appreciated, not expected.
Except paying someone else to drive is more expensive than driving yourself. Amazon is very inefficient. I see Amazon stopping on my street multiple times per day.
Yes, old age can be costly, inefficient, inconvenient, unpleasant... - certainly more so for some than others depending on how health and aging progress. We can hope for extended good health up until a quick death, but many are not so blessed.
It isn't about cars per se or land use per se (I mean it is, but not entirely); it's that a whole lifetime of using a car to go wherever you want whenever you want deeply acculturates you to that mindset, and you are giving up an entire way of existing in the world when you give up a car. Some of that is real and some of that is the automakers' fantasy and some of it necessity, but wherever it comes from it is what people actually experience.
To your point, the accident was in front of the public tram station.
At 71 I want to go like my grandfather in his sleep
Not screaming like his passengers
If you don’t like the way I drive, stay off the sidewalks
If you riding a bike your invisible, just letting you know.
Or maybe the "vehicle sans permis" that buzz around here in rural France. It won't go above 50 kph (30 mph) as it's basically a lawnmower engine that powers it. You have to have insurance but not a driver's licence. Not recommended for anything other than popping to the store. In fact they are banned from roads where the limit is 110 kph.
Yes, I fear we are soon hitting that wall. There is a powerful tendency to think that we are above or immune to the impacts of aging. Biden and Trump both suffered this delusion. One finally admitted his decline and departed, the other continues to inflict us with his nonsense, and totally ignores the realities of aging, healthcare and driving included. My father had to take the keys from his father. My sister took the keys from my father. Will I allow my children to take the keys away from me, or will I simply surrender them when the time comes, and it will come? I note that Granite Grok added a comment while I typed about self-driving cars as a solution. Perhaps that has some merit in a world without natural resources limits and unlimited space for highway expansion. It does not address the systemic problem we have with transportation, which also includes young people before they can legally drive. What if neighborhoods were designed so that cars were not needed at all? Perhaps you can retrofit neighborhoods to reduce the need to change residences? In any case, the problem of elderly driving needs a wide-boundary analysis and systemic change, not a simple technological tweak.
I'm going to ignore the TDS for this comment - for now.
Yes, at some point, without autonomous vehicles, there will come that day. I took the keys from my Mom - not a pleasant task as she had already been warned by us not allowing our young sons to ride with her anymore. But with self-drivers, this aging problem becomes irrelevant.
Your next section on neighborhoods totally ignores rural areas - it seems that you agree with Lloyd that we all should be "racked and stacked" into urban areas.
So, politically and financially, how would you make that work for the new building and the retrofitting? You see cars as a systematic problem - many on the other side of your observation would see it just like having their keys removed from them for no good reason.
How would you deal with that writ large? No Glittering Generalities need apply.
I’m always amused by the people who comment here who see the world as a modern urban environment with everything conveniently at their fingertips, and everything else outside their personal experience bubble as a “no man’s land” devoid of people or their unique needs.
The 1976 Cover page from the New Yorker magazine comes close: there's NYC, nothing in the middle, and then the pacific (the "elite" world view of themselves).
I agree. I grew up in a very rural setting and we lived off the land to a big extent. Hand dug well with the best water around. Our meat was fish we caught and venison Dad shot. The social structure was fantastic. Then I went to college in San Francisco. Rude awakening. I have lived in urban , suburban and yes lived on a cul de sac. But I have always endeavored to live rurally. Which probably explains my need for RV adventures. May your life continue in a harmonious manner.
>> not a simple technological tweak
I'll add this - excellent engineering can be defined as doing the least amount of change (and cost) to achieve a given output or result. I'm willing to make a wager that what you call a "techno tweak" solves this problem with MUCH less change, MUCH less fuss, and with much less cost while enabling those that lost their mobility regain it quickly.
Change my mind (and don't forget ALL of the politics that goes with your solution).
Biden was demonstrably obvious with his cognitive impairment; he refused to take a cognitive test to reassure the public he was capable of being president. Trump DID take one and passed; just because you disagree with someone’s politics doesn’t make them cognitively dysfunctional.
Having said that, what would “redesigning our neighborhoods” look like? I mean, that’s a HUGE undertaking in both costs and carbon, and not every neighborhood—regardless of size—would or could see a benefit. It might sound cold, calloused, or insensitive, but no one is getting out of this plane of reality alive. It may be inconvenient to the elderly to have them stay in their own homes, but technology is continually evolving and making “the golden years” not just more feasible but also more safe. Would it suck to stick a 78 year old woman in jail for the rest of her life? No, because either way the government is still paying for her existence—and in the prison system, she at least would be afforded the healthcare, nutrition, and housing needs that she will require on the outside.
Different solutions for different neighborhoods. There's a huge empty lot at the entrance to our subdivision behind the Walmart neighborhood market that's big enough for a small public library, a Trader Joe's, a bakery ... There's already a Starbucks and an urgent care in that shopping center.
You completely discredit yourself and your comment with the first paragraph.
I’m sorry you didn’t like my post about facts but the thing about facts is that they don’t care about your feelings—and neither do I.
It’s not about feelings it’s about facts and you don’t have any.
Long ago I read that there are three events in a man's (sorry) life that are truly horrific: loss of a job, loss of a spouse and loss of a driver's license. I watched my father go through the license event, am now watching my brother endure it, and now contemplate my own moves, turning 84 soon. No solutions here, but it's a BIG problem that needs attention.
I’m 71. I ride an e-bike. When the time comes I may switch to an e-trike. Oh, and there’s delivery now.
Why not make ISA mandatory for everyone? Is there some hidden constitutional right to exceed the speed limit?
No, it is a "Privilege" and not a Right. The latter is cast in stone here in the US in the Bill of Rights section of the US Constitution. They were written to be inviolate (sadly, too many just ignore that).
A Privilege is the opposite. Regardless of whether doing "something" arose organically within Society or put into place by government, it can be changed at any time. Now, there may be no pushback (er, not many riots over removing the penny (1 cent US) from circulation) or LOTS of angry people with a PR war protesting such a removal.
Or in this case, speed governors, additions. Politicians are hesitant because their political lives (and remember, their FIRST job is to get elected, their SECOND job is to get re-elected; anything else is variable). Creating and bringing your mob to their office makes a big difference in their outlooks (even if they personally were in favor of what was changed).
Hi GraniteGrok -- what would you do then with an 81 yarold that still compeat's and wins on drag strips and SCCA race courses in a car he built himself; drives on the street - and has never caused an accident - but was in one that another driver caused - when he was 18.
Take my driver's license away - because younger people - who don't know how to drive - and think they know better - are squawking ?
It's called "keeping the skills up".
Take and pass a test and there's no problem.
We don't let under 18's drive without a test because we know that they don't all have the maturity or attention to detail to safely drive with passengers, or at certain times, or whatever.
At the other end of the aging bell curve, people start to lose vision and reaction time (its right there in the article). That doesn't mean that someone who already had exceptional vision and reaction time (like a racecar driver) wouldn't keep more of this skill than average, and still be a safe motorist.
Why does the average aging person, with extremely deteriorated vision and reaction time get a free pass to cause harm?
Points taken, but until you or anyone else can prove; by testing: that an older person has lost either their vision past a point - or their reaction time -- at least in the US; that older person keeps the option of driving.
At least in the US - we don't have someone else totally arbitrarily making that desion - because they have an opinion.
The modern world is all about skills. Sadly, we’ve been conditioned to think outsourcing skills to someone else is better, for any number of reasons. I was taught to drive defensively at all times, regardless of how many other people were on the road with me. It’s a skill that’s kept me out of quite a few accidents with “government sheep” aka deer.
Hi CanDoo -- I would offer one thought.
"Conditioning" only takes place in a person - if a person allows it.
Skills can be learned.
1.) I have "officially" a high school education - but
2.) I enlisted in the US Navy - for the education - which I received free of charge - in Electronics School and Radar School - and with my 65+ years of practicing it - doing research / development / US Patenting / a solid-state electric power circuit "up-grade" I uncovered in ET school - which is now being privately developed in Europe, New Zealand, and Australia - not here in the US - as the US Government is, and has been protecting the Oil and Gas Industry here - which my power supply makes "redundant.
3.) I taught my self CAD (computer Aided Drafting) which I made a really good living at - until retiring.
My point is this.
If you have or develop, self-respect, self-determination, and self- perseverence: - you can learn / teach yourself anything; and then put that new knowledge to use.
There are no "reasons" for sitting on one's butt and complaining.
And I cracked up over the "Government sheep" - "been there done that" - being born in Colorado and working summers on my uncle's ranch just outside of Steamboat Springs -- where they get really big and can really mess up a real pick-up - and I would hate to think what one of those big boys would do to the frort end of one ot the spam cans they now call SUVs.
We act like it. We appear to believe that, if it is not so, it certainly should be.
"Giant SUVs are essentially light trucks and require more skill to drive than conventional cars. There should be a separate licence category requiring appropriate driving tests." Some US states, especially Massachusetts and California, had a special license (US spelling) for drivers of Ford Model Ts (model years 1908-1927). The T had three pedals, L to R: high and low speed, reverse, and brake. The throttle (and spark advance) were below the steering wheel. In late 1927, MA drivers of T's had to take a new test because Ford's new Model A adopted what was already the norm of clutch, brake, and throttle. The Model T unfortunately put us on the path of sprawl.
Speaking of SUVs, watch this:
https://youtu.be/JPm4de6-eTg?si=xfrmM3rmHiSl_Gdu
How is the first mass produced car ever made relevant to the current situation of elderly drivers?
Are you policing?
No, I’m trying to make sense of what relevance the first mass produced car has on modern elderly drivers.
The first mass produced car is relevant to modern history: it led to the creation of the highway system, enabling suburban sprawl, and the existence of modern elderly drivers.
This is pretty straightforward logic if you think about it.
The second world war generated an enormous industrial expansion to produce the weaponry needed: tanks, planes etc on a vast scale, first in Canada, then later in the US as they jumped into the war. After 1945 this excess capacity was switched to producing cars, for which demand had to be created.
Government subsidies were switched from railways to highways. Urban zoning was revised to favour cars over
Pedestrians. Whole neighbourhoods or subdivisions were designed with zoning to make them totally dependent on cars by minimizing public transit and banning all stores and other commercial activity within walking distance. The fabric of our lives was changed in irreversible ways within a generation. Now we are paying the price!
This was starting to be a problem 30 years ago
I agree, I faced it with both parents
We WANT to live in a walkable community with public transportation — but we cannot begin to afford to live in any city that offers that.
It’s a big oil problem. St. Louis had a lot of public transport when my father (born in 1939) was a kid until Shell Oil bribed and strong armed politicians into ripping it all out. Some of the train cars that serviced StL back then were actually sold to San Francisco. Those cars in SF are still in use funny enough. Capital is the reason we are where we are.
What's too old Lloyd? Are you the arbiter of the driving privileges? Canada seems to be deciding such issues for their citizens. Every time I read an article about Boomers their seems too be some disdain as if Boomers were some unthinking hedonistic beings. I grew up with parents from the depression. I got my first paycheck from picking Prunes at age 8. Some of you may think that is unbelievable, but in rural America in the 50s that was possible. It wasn't big but I loved it. I am on the on SS now, but that is the first government assistance I've ever taken. There are lots of people like me. I'm still driving cross country at 74 and continue to RV as a way to keep us occupied. I've met many people doing the same into their 80s. Take care of yourself Lloyd you'll be their soon enough. I don't believe it's the Chicken Little event you think it is. But that seems to be your MO. Not saying all your writing is off but the Boomers thing sticks in my craw. But then I'm 74, so...
I am there, I am 73 and I gave up my car keys before I had to. I am glad for you (and envious) at your RVing. I am just pointing out that for many, losing their keys comes as a rude shock.
I had to take my Dad's away at 80. But he had dementia. Dementia is almost certainly diet related. I don't intend to have it. I assumed you were younger, which triggered me.
Dementia is almost certainly diet related? Ok, Jim, MD, PhD, I look forward to your cookbook/diet that can protect me from dementia.
Its being called Type III diabetes, that's all I know. People in memory care units have been sent home after being on a low carb diet.
Got any reputable sources for that?
For what?
I just looked up the reasons for it and it is diet issues or other area's.
Totally agree Jim - and I'm 81. I see it as the younger set -- crying for mama because they don't know how to anything except play with their brohs on a game-boy or type on a keyboard -- still living in mama's basement at 34.
Good for you, that's great that you and others are still able to safely operate your vehicles and travel like that, I hope to be able to enjoy retirement like that some day.
Not everyone keeps their vision or health to an extent where they can do that. In fact that deterioration is so common that it's worth testing people at a certain age. You pass? Good for you, keep driving.
Fwiw, my own grandfather didn't start showing dementia symptoms until he lost his driving privileges (hit a kid while driving at night with cataracts) and effectively lost access to public life.
Yes, I went through my Dad losing his license. He knew what was going on. We replaced his license with a ID card. He wasn't happy. My explanation was, Dad you don't have a car. His reply, "I can buy a car". It's tough. He taught me to drive at the age of 12 I was driving a 1962 International Scout off road. But, he smoked most of his life and once he retired he stopped physical activity. I'm slowing down myself. The new trailer is keeping me busy. I changed my diet 4 years ago. Seriously low carb. Joint pain went away. Blood pressure is great, weight is within my senior in high school range. Brain fog is gone pretty much. We're not completely carnivore but close.
My wife and I had the same experience with our parents as first her father, then her mother, and then my mother had to give up their keys and resisted though her parents lived in a seniors community and my mother lived with my younger brother and his family and the extended grandchildren stepped up to help. Fortunately my wife and I live in a community well supported by public transit and we are active users for museum, library, and theatre visits - though driving is still preferred for grocery runs and in good weather we can walk to our clinic. Re self driving cars, I am persuaded (yet again after my latest excursions to neighboring states) that self driving cars drive at least as well as about half of the drivers currently on the road.
Boomers follow the culture laid out for them. As does every generation. The nation was laid out for the invention of the automobile. In Cleveland, Ohio they bulldozed through the lower income and ethnic neighborhoods in order to build the interstate hwy system. No one thinks