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Vindaloo Bugaboo's avatar

The maths on this make no sense. Let's look at how the HPI is calculated:

HPI = [(life expectancy) x (self-reported wellbeing)] / carbon footprint

In simpler terms, let's rewrite it as (A x B)/C ... it's more easily understandable replacing the terms. Now, when doing a calculation like this, as C approaches zero, the values of A and B become less meaningful because division by zero is undefined. And as A or B decrease, even if the value of C remains the same, the final result also necessarily goes lower. So you could have several things happen that artificially and dramatically affect the final score.

Life expectancy is pretty straight forward as a metric; carbon footprint *should* be fairly easy to calculate but isn't because discrepancies in accounting matters, whether that carbon footprint is ascribed to production or consumption. But I find the idea of "self-reported wellbeing" to be incredibly puerile and obtuse. (a) it's self-reported; there's no checks-and-balances to ensure accuracy of reporting (b) "wellbeing" can mean different things to different people. I find it implausible that people in Nicaragua are happier than in Luxembourg, yet that's what the HPI graph above shows. China is happier than America? Only because the CCP dictates respondents to say so. And if a country's population has been raised to embrace stoicism vs. another that is nothing but emotional drama thanks to a media that foments chaos, does that accurately predict wellbeing? Of course not—which is why the authors bracket their conclusions so heavily with what amounts to an admission of junk science being shopped around for validation by interested parties.

What I have issues with is this line: 'The authors never use the radioactive D-word (degrowth), but they do quote prominent degrowthers tilting at windmills and green growth" ... why do you think that is? Does anyone here *TRULY* know what society would look like if degrowth were implemented? With the rare exception of the few like myself, Grok, and coji1, the answer is a resounding "no." There's a reason why it's radioactive, because it would require turning Western developed nations into the equivalent of Zaire. And not even people in Zaire want to be Zairian, so why should Western nations get on that bandwagon? It's just all so puerile as to be laughable.

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GraniteGrok's avatar

"My commenter asked, “WHAT IS THE ALTERNATIVE?”

Yes, that would be me. I'm glad you took my question seriously and launched into finding such an alternative. That said, your quote of

"“Countries that seek to maximize GDP do not, as a rule, do particularly well at achieving what matters: well-being within environmental limits. In that sense, GDP does not measure what matters.”

...is the wrong premise as it speaks only of the self-interest of a small minority of people. Let me fix it for you for a much wider application:

"“Countries that seek to maximize GDP do not, as a rule, do particularly well at achieving what matters: well-being within an environment that promotes maximal individual Liberty within an ordered society. In that sense, GDP does not measure what matters.”

And the use of "ordered" uses the older definition - summarized as "not anarchy". Like the use of the word "regulated" in the US Second Amendment to our Constitution. "Ordered" does NOT mean tied into a teeny social space - as in the 2nd, it means "well functioning".

There's a lot more behind that purpose that could stimulate a lot of comments (and eyeballs, Lloyd!).

But here's your conundrum, Lloyd - which alternative, yours (which by definition, requires much more govt with its attendant costs and interference), or mine (in which a free people regulate themselves in their own pursuit of Happiness (see US Declaration of Independence), in order to be successful?

Your version of Happiness is highly dependent on carbon non-usage. I would stipulate that the vast population do NOT, unlike the folks here and at the former TH, do not maintain their happiness based on your favorite measure.

Look, you "walk your talk" and I have applauded that through the years - it DOES make you happy and I happily nod at that. But what if it was forced upon you - would you be as happy? How much of your current level of Freedom (and while your previous comment to me of "without mentioning fascist Trudeau" comes to mind) are you willing to give up - and would that make you happier? Where is that tipping point?

And would that tipping point be the same for everyone? One size fits all? And does that end up as "the lowest common denominator for the sake of 'equity'"?

And to that last line, have you taken note of the many school systems here in the US that are removing advanced classes for high performing students because lower performing students are excluded, by definition? That is what "equity" is now becoming in a de facto fashion.

Enforcing low carbon usage is no different.

Discuss.

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