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Douglas J's avatar

I think Lloyd employs confirmation bias when discussing offsets. He also conflates offsetting with industrial carbon capture projects, which may be too blunt of a categorization.

The journalism article from three obscure people from the UK’s Exeter University doesn’t seem to me to be a strong source—it’s opinion-laden and doesn’t link to higher-credibility studies. The three authors are a climate-modeling mathematician, a climate journalist, and a machine-learning specialist—none of them seem to have expertise in offsetting and carbon credits. Lloyd’s title is biased—about “studies” that show offsetting doesn’t work. Where, exactly, is this “study” from Exeter so that we may assess it? It’s basically an op-ed article from the internet.

The most credible article cited here is from Nature Communications. Although Lloyd cherry-picks a quote to support his position, this article claims that: “Carbon markets play an important role in firms’ and governments’ climate strategies.” And, contrary to abandoning them, the article states that “Carbon crediting mechanisms need to be reformed fundamentally to meaningfully contribute to climate change mitigation.” This study only looks at 14 offsetting studies, estimating effectiveness of only a fraction (1/5) of carbon credits. This is a more complex issue than Lloyd’s black-and-white approach here.

I agree that we should try to reduce emissions as much as possible, and we shouldn’t let promises of net zero distract us of this. However, I’m a realist in that I see that zero emissions, right now or in the foreseeable future, are elusive. Thus, offsetting plays a role, especially those projects that draw down carbon by rebuilding natural systems. Lloyd’s own behavior shows this—he is unable to model the zero-emissions lifestyle he advocates. I also agree that we need to build the science of carbon sequestration and accounting and weed out the bad offsetting actors and projects.

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Wayne Teel's avatar

Cap and Trade is different than carbon offsets, and it did work with sulfur oxides from coal plants. In that situation they put a cap on sulfur emissions related to the total carbon burned, then slowly lowered the cap. If you wanted a higher cap you had to trade for an emission amount with a company that dropped lower than their cap. In this way they lowered the emissions through time. We have not done the same for carbon, at least not a clearly defined. The goal is to lower the total emissions as fast as possible, and so far the cap is not lower than the total emissions. To make this work you would have to cap a power company at emissions lower than they have at present, forcing them to get any additional power for their market from and alternative source. The weakness of this, as Lloyd points out, is the failure to account for embodied emissions in the new sources, and all of them have embodied emissions at this point.

This was meant as a reply to Alan Kandel, but I could not post it.

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