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GraniteGrok's avatar

I will agree with you on this - TA-DA! - I use Perplexity as well. Not that it is the best but I find that it hallucinates the least (eg, returns a lesser number of made-up answers) - I would counsel people to double-check answers, on some basis of your own, returned from your queries.

I'm going to disagree with the final premise of this post. In the avenue of power consumption, I will quote the unknown wag: "You ain't seen nothin' yet!". You are correct in that part of the tech race is to make the millions (billions??) of GPUs and NPUs more efficient, and the machine learning processes MAY get more efficient, utterly MASSIVE data centers to hold incomprehensible yottabytes necessary for that data's organization and subsequent queries against it.

I forecast, from my retired seat in the IT sidelines, that the number of planned and built data centers will continue to ramp up, for a while, exponentially. And each one will be bigger than the previous ones by all of the major players in this field.

After all, a thumbdrive isn't going to hold all the data necessary to train all these task specific and generalized models...

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Bart Hawkins Kreps's avatar

Interesting comments on Perplexity – that's something I look forward to trying.

Given how often I agree with almost everything you write, it’s unusual that I find something to object to in nearly every paragraph of this post. Here’s a few …. First, I find the emphasis on the low operating energy consumption of phones and average computers to be nearly pointless. So much of the energy use occurs in the transmission/cloud, and equally if not more significant, in the production of the frequently-replaced equipment. While the electricity used to power a phone in some cases is provided through relatively clean generation, the mining, manufacturing and long-distance shipping will be much harder and take longer to decarbonize.

Second, from what I read, the energy demands of the cloud have been going up rapidly for years. Perhaps these sources are wrong, but here's one such reference:

“Amid explosive demand, America is running out of power – AI and the boom in clean-tech manufacturing are pushing America’s power grid to the brink. Utilities can’t keep up.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2024/03/07/ai-data-centers-power/?_pml=1

For example, the article says “A major factor behind the skyrocketing demand [for electricity] is the rapid innovation in artificial intelligence, which is driving the construction of large warehouses of computing infrastructure that require exponentially more power than traditional data centers. AI is also part of a huge scale-up of cloud computing.”

Re AI chips, you write “those AI chips are going to get more efficient by the day and they run on electricity, which gets cleaner every day.” But we have a great example of Jevon’s Paradox – while individual AI chips get more efficient, the overall energy consumption skyrockets. AI farms may buy renewable energy, but in many places that simply means there’s not enough clean electricity left to run heat pumps or electric vehicles.

You make a good point that aviation is primarily a global elite service, internet usage is far more widespread. True, but: I suspect access to and use of multiple streaming services is heavily slanted to the world’s wealthier residents; ownership and frequent replacement of multiple devices (phone, tablet, laptop, watch, large-screen TVs) also reflects global inequality. I would expect that responsibility for internet-related carbon emissions is heavily weighted to the rich world, even if that weighting is not quite so extreme as in aviation.

I certainly agree that internet usage CAN BE less environmentally impactful than many other standard activities in western society. If we are mindful about what we buy and how we use it, the benefits of internet usage might even outweigh the harms. But the whole internet industrial complex pushes toward greater consumption of nearly everything. So, taken as a societal whole, I would say our internet habits ARE killing the planet.

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