I totally disagree we should let people do what they want the laws are fine and I ride an electric unicycle and I've seen cyclists hit close to my top speed 40+kmh it can go 60 but I do not and I want to get an electric dirt bike later on my own opinion is simply have basic self awareness and respect like obviously if someone is walking I slow down pop on the grass and go around them and alwayse give priority to pedestrians on sidewalks or bike paths and never even speed much more than most cyclists can hit I just really like the range of my device and on open roads the fact I can cruise at a nice 50 like down an open flat road on the way home in a bike lane not too much different than a cyclists but I'm not a super athletic long distance cyclist like the guy I ran into but my biggest takeaway is tbh who cares these insurance companies already ruin any affordable way of getting around and you guys want to give them and cops more power to scam and harass people using practical means of transportation reducing traffic and emissions hell most of the year is too fkn cold even to use these devices
Gov. Healey here in MA has filed a Ride Safe Act which recognizes this key aspect. I've been in touch with my elected officials hoping to nudge this along. Good luck, Lloyd, with Doug Ford :-)
Whatever the rules are, enforce them and enforce them hard. That will send messages to the scofflaws - both to the riders but to the sellers and manufacturers.
Last week I watched a guy riding an -escooter - literally an electric powered scooter like the one 5-year old me rode by pushing with one foot while the other stood on the long skinny near the ground platform. So, he's in traffic moviing at 25-30 MPH, wearing a helmet, short sleeved shirt, long trousers, and shoes. No other protection except the helmet. I could only imagine what his chances would be in an accident.
In AZ, these are starting to show up. Of course, in AZ, speed limits, stop signs, and red lights are suggestions anyway. These are not like cars where you have a metal body around you. Even at 10mph, you risk serious injury. I too like the rush of air on me also. I also like keeping my skin in place.
And the drivers of cars, mostly do not care. We are in a hurry, so what if we are doing 35mph (marked at 20mph) in a school zone. I can get around you rapidly until I underestimated the distance of the vehicle coming towards me.
We did the scooters in Bermuda and enjoyed it even though we were riding on a different side of the road. In the US, it is a lot different. They are not careful drivers and there is always the need for speed. How much time did you cut by going 12 miles an hour faster? Beware of AZ347.
>> And nobody mentions torque or peak output, which determine whether your e-bike is sedate or a rocket.
Back in the early '70s, all my friends had muscle cars - mine was a 67 Chevy Camaro with a 327 that we hopped up from OEM 275 HP and changed out the tranny with a lower ratio for a much higher get-up-and-go (torque and its application thereof).
Having previously been warned, we all took off "the line" (whatever that happened to be - stop sign, a red light, et al) like the proverbial hot place to reach the allowable speed limit (plus a wee bit over, truth be told) and stayed there.
So there's nothing wrong with "giddy up" as long as you trot the rest of the way...
>> ignoring years of European experience and raising the speed to 20 MPH (faster than most cyclists) and the motor power to 750 watts...
Simply put - we are not Europeans. Why should we follow their current examples?
It's only taking them into world irrelevance right now. For all of their political bluster, the EU has become authoritarian on free and political speech (think 1984), financially poorer than our State of Mississippi (ask some Brits who took THAT news quite badly), and except for Poland, have little modern and usable military capability (re: Brittiania can hardly rule a lake given it current naval state and it seems that none of the EU countries are willing to police Hormuz even as its their oil that comes from there).
Even the tiny Baltic and Nordic countries are in better shape than the main EU economies (thanks to their voluntary degrowth policies).
Don't get me wrong - European culture (before the mass migration) fits Europeans fairly well. Good for them. That doesn't mean that its a good fit Americans - remember, we fought a couple of wars to free ourselves from Europe (only to "return" later on to save their butts). I believe
With great thanks, however, much of our earliest customs and culture stem from British common law, philosophers like Locke, Montequieu, Smith, Vatel, Lome, Voltair (and others) and customs . We wouldn't be "us" without their ideas - but we adapted them for, at the time, our new separatist nation. DItto during later settlers and immigrants "from the Old Country" in adding some of their culture into the mix even as they sought to assimilate into the larger American culture.
And that's my point - we are a distinct people. While we do "culturally appropriate" from a lot of cultures far more than other countries do, those countries should also have their own distinctiveness. I hate the Elitist forcing of homogenization of all peoples into a single population. Let Europe be European and America be American.
Using European norms may work well for Canada; Carney is certainly "giddy upping" to the EU hard as well to Communist China as well. Let's see how that works out, shall we?
On this specific topic, the aspect of how Europeans regulate ebikes that I'd like to emulate is the 25 kph (15 mph) speed limit on assist. I am a fit but slow 72 year old who rides here on Martha's Vineyard for transport, recreation, and errands, averaging over 100 miles (160 km) per week. A good ride may average 15 mph. Now all manner of obviously poorly skilled riders are whizzing by me, not pedaling, on what are basically electric motorcycles. It's just not safe. Every year here somehow is seriously injured or even killed on a rental moped, for which they have no training. The emotos have exploded onto public roads, bike paths, and trails without a focused effort to properly classify and regulate them. Here it is compounded by the police not enforcing the laws, which was originally from ignorance, but the small group I work with on bike and pedestrian safety as part of the local planning commission has taken the initiative to bring the laws to their attention, so ignorance is no longer the excuse for lack of enforcement.
I totally disagree we should let people do what they want the laws are fine and I ride an electric unicycle and I've seen cyclists hit close to my top speed 40+kmh it can go 60 but I do not and I want to get an electric dirt bike later on my own opinion is simply have basic self awareness and respect like obviously if someone is walking I slow down pop on the grass and go around them and alwayse give priority to pedestrians on sidewalks or bike paths and never even speed much more than most cyclists can hit I just really like the range of my device and on open roads the fact I can cruise at a nice 50 like down an open flat road on the way home in a bike lane not too much different than a cyclists but I'm not a super athletic long distance cyclist like the guy I ran into but my biggest takeaway is tbh who cares these insurance companies already ruin any affordable way of getting around and you guys want to give them and cops more power to scam and harass people using practical means of transportation reducing traffic and emissions hell most of the year is too fkn cold even to use these devices
Not sure whether this is allowed....but Saul Griffith's post on this is excellent.
TL:DR
"The solution is not to limit the power of the bike, but to strictly enforce a speed limit."
https://energyandstuff.substack.com/p/lets-get-the-rules-on-e-bikes-and
Gov. Healey here in MA has filed a Ride Safe Act which recognizes this key aspect. I've been in touch with my elected officials hoping to nudge this along. Good luck, Lloyd, with Doug Ford :-)
https://www.mass.gov/news/governor-healey-files-ride-safe-act-to-strengthen-public-safety-regulate-e-bikes-mopeds-and-scooters
Whatever the rules are, enforce them and enforce them hard. That will send messages to the scofflaws - both to the riders but to the sellers and manufacturers.
Last week I watched a guy riding an -escooter - literally an electric powered scooter like the one 5-year old me rode by pushing with one foot while the other stood on the long skinny near the ground platform. So, he's in traffic moviing at 25-30 MPH, wearing a helmet, short sleeved shirt, long trousers, and shoes. No other protection except the helmet. I could only imagine what his chances would be in an accident.
Lloyd:
In AZ, these are starting to show up. Of course, in AZ, speed limits, stop signs, and red lights are suggestions anyway. These are not like cars where you have a metal body around you. Even at 10mph, you risk serious injury. I too like the rush of air on me also. I also like keeping my skin in place.
And the drivers of cars, mostly do not care. We are in a hurry, so what if we are doing 35mph (marked at 20mph) in a school zone. I can get around you rapidly until I underestimated the distance of the vehicle coming towards me.
We did the scooters in Bermuda and enjoyed it even though we were riding on a different side of the road. In the US, it is a lot different. They are not careful drivers and there is always the need for speed. How much time did you cut by going 12 miles an hour faster? Beware of AZ347.
It's the Wild west right now.
>> And nobody mentions torque or peak output, which determine whether your e-bike is sedate or a rocket.
Back in the early '70s, all my friends had muscle cars - mine was a 67 Chevy Camaro with a 327 that we hopped up from OEM 275 HP and changed out the tranny with a lower ratio for a much higher get-up-and-go (torque and its application thereof).
Having previously been warned, we all took off "the line" (whatever that happened to be - stop sign, a red light, et al) like the proverbial hot place to reach the allowable speed limit (plus a wee bit over, truth be told) and stayed there.
So there's nothing wrong with "giddy up" as long as you trot the rest of the way...
>> ignoring years of European experience and raising the speed to 20 MPH (faster than most cyclists) and the motor power to 750 watts...
Simply put - we are not Europeans. Why should we follow their current examples?
It's only taking them into world irrelevance right now. For all of their political bluster, the EU has become authoritarian on free and political speech (think 1984), financially poorer than our State of Mississippi (ask some Brits who took THAT news quite badly), and except for Poland, have little modern and usable military capability (re: Brittiania can hardly rule a lake given it current naval state and it seems that none of the EU countries are willing to police Hormuz even as its their oil that comes from there).
Even the tiny Baltic and Nordic countries are in better shape than the main EU economies (thanks to their voluntary degrowth policies).
Don't get me wrong - European culture (before the mass migration) fits Europeans fairly well. Good for them. That doesn't mean that its a good fit Americans - remember, we fought a couple of wars to free ourselves from Europe (only to "return" later on to save their butts). I believe
With great thanks, however, much of our earliest customs and culture stem from British common law, philosophers like Locke, Montequieu, Smith, Vatel, Lome, Voltair (and others) and customs . We wouldn't be "us" without their ideas - but we adapted them for, at the time, our new separatist nation. DItto during later settlers and immigrants "from the Old Country" in adding some of their culture into the mix even as they sought to assimilate into the larger American culture.
And that's my point - we are a distinct people. While we do "culturally appropriate" from a lot of cultures far more than other countries do, those countries should also have their own distinctiveness. I hate the Elitist forcing of homogenization of all peoples into a single population. Let Europe be European and America be American.
Using European norms may work well for Canada; Carney is certainly "giddy upping" to the EU hard as well to Communist China as well. Let's see how that works out, shall we?
On this specific topic, the aspect of how Europeans regulate ebikes that I'd like to emulate is the 25 kph (15 mph) speed limit on assist. I am a fit but slow 72 year old who rides here on Martha's Vineyard for transport, recreation, and errands, averaging over 100 miles (160 km) per week. A good ride may average 15 mph. Now all manner of obviously poorly skilled riders are whizzing by me, not pedaling, on what are basically electric motorcycles. It's just not safe. Every year here somehow is seriously injured or even killed on a rental moped, for which they have no training. The emotos have exploded onto public roads, bike paths, and trails without a focused effort to properly classify and regulate them. Here it is compounded by the police not enforcing the laws, which was originally from ignorance, but the small group I work with on bike and pedestrian safety as part of the local planning commission has taken the initiative to bring the laws to their attention, so ignorance is no longer the excuse for lack of enforcement.
I agree (also old and slow)